Homosexuality is Unnatural?

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Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
December 15, 2006, 15:13

I came accross this piece a few weeks ago and think that some in this forum will find it helpful. its a little long but says a lot in few words…….not like me at all.

We’ve often heard the arguement that homosexuality must be wrong because its unnatural. To which I reply “of course homosexuality is unnatural…..if you are heterosexual…but its totally natural for me to be attracted and want to partner with a person of the same sex as its natural for you to be attracted and want to partner with the opposite.” (you can quote me on that hehe 😆 )

Homosexuality is Unnatural?

On Thursday October 12 2006 The Natural History Museum, University of Oslo, opened the first-ever museum exhibition dedicated to gay animals.

Today we know that homosexuality is a common and widespread phenomenon in the animal world. Not only short-lived sexual relationships, but even long-lasting partnerships; partnerships that may last a lifetime.

The exhibit puts on display a small selection among the more than 1500 species where homosexuality have been observed. This fascinating story of the animals’ secret life is told by means of models, photos, texts and specimens. The visitor will be confronted with all sorts of creatures from tiny insects to enormous spermwhales.

How can we know that an animal is homosexual? How can homosexual behaviour be consistent with what we have learned about evolution and darwinism?

Sadly, most museums have no traditions for airing difficult, concealed, and possibly controversial questions. Homosexuality is certainly such a question. We feel confident that a greater understanding of how extensive and common this behaviour is among animals, will help to de-mystify homosexuality among people. – At least, we hope to reject the all too well known argument that homosexual behaviour is a crime against nature.

Can animals be homosexual?

The sexual urge is strong in all animals. Many species have sex outside the mating season and commonly enjoy sex without reproductive intent – rubbing their sexual organs against each other or stimulating themselves or their partners in other ways. When animals of the same gender have sex, they exhibit homosexual behaviour. We call such animals homosexuals. Some animals are consistently homosexual throughout their life.

Which animals are homosexual?

Homosexuality has been observed in most vertebrate groups, and also from insects, spiders, crustaceans, octopi and parasitic worms. The phenomenon has been reported from more than 1500 animal species, and is well documented for 500 of them, but the real extent is probably much higher.

The frequency of homosexuality varies from species to species. In some species, homosexuality has never been reported, while in others the entire species is bisexual. In zoos around 1 in 5 pairs of king penguins are of the same sex. The record is held by orange fronted parakeets, where roughly half of all pairs in captivity are of the same sex.

Why haven’t we been told?

Homosexuality in animals has been known since Antiquity, but has only recently made it into mainstream science. The cause may be a lack of interest, distaste, ridicule or scientists fearing to lose their grants. The few scientists publishing on the topic, often made sure their own sexual preferences were known, directly or indirectly.

Some scientists have interpreted same-sex pairing as anything but sex. In a study of giraffes in Africa a researcher registered all cases where a male sniffed a female as “sexual interest” – while anal intercourse with ejaculation between males was registered as a form of ritualised fighting (“sparring”), despite the fact that 94% of all registered sexual activity in one area took place between males. Only recently has scientists started investigating homosexuality in animals in earnest.

Why doesn’t homosexuality become extinct?

Do homosexual animals have offspring? In some animals it seems homosexuality runs in the family, and sometimes it actually pays off, in evolutionary terms. In birds, homosexual pairs obtain eggs from “one night stands”, and raise the chicks. Homosexual penguins, swans, geese, ducks and seagulls are known to successfully raise families in this way.

Most animals – including humans, copulate far more than is necessary for reproduction. Most animals where homosexuality is observed are bisexual. Homosexual mating can pay off or be a drawback, depending on the circumstances, but most of the time it has little evolutionary effect.

Either you’re with us or against us

Many social animals have complex social systems where individuals seek out allies for help and protection. Sex is an important way of strengthening the alliance, also between animals of the same sex. In some animals the whole species is bisexual, and homosexual relationships are prerequisites for joining a pack, making strict heterosexuality a disadvantage.

Many of the species where homosexuality is registered are just such intelligent social animals with complex hierarchies, like wolves, lions, whales and primates.

Our closest relatives

Humans belong to the apes together with two species of chimpanzees, gorilla, orang-utan, siamang and gibbons. Homosexuality is known from all groups, but there are great variations between species regarding gender, age and frequency, and even from group to group within the species. Compared to the other apes, human homosexuality is neither extremely frequent, nor particularly rare, and in our species too, the practice varies from one culture to the next

Against nature?

The Church Council of Nablus in 1120 AD wrote the first law where homosexuality was labelled a “Crime against Nature”. In the Renaissance, such texts found their way into the laws of many countries, leading to widespread oppression against homosexuality on the basis that it is “unnatural”.

We may have opinions on a lot of things, but one thing is clear: Homosexuality is found throughout the Animal Kingdom. It is not against nature.

Joined in 2005
December 19, 2006, 19:20

i think this stuff is really important to get out there. I think it puts in question the validity of God’s view of homosexuality as that it is sin and abhorent…

hopefully it makes just a few people question there closed views and opens them up to a world of love

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
December 19, 2006, 19:57

Yep…….and put an end to that silly saying God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.

Joined in 2006
December 26, 2006, 14:07

far out “adam and steve” lol lol gees i had that thrown at me heaps and for a while i swallowed it. The first time i heard that was from sy rogers.

The world had to start somewhere, so makes sense it was man and woman first. Gods intention was that we wouldnt be alone and choose a partner for life in a loving union, so why would it be wrong if i happen to choose a female or a man a male.

If we were made only to populate lol then sex im sure would not be enjoyable, it would be just something our bodies happen to do to create another human being. i still hold to the fact that its all a part of something two people who love each other share and not something to be exploited or something that consumes us. How destructive can sex be when its used the wrong way (prostitution(feeling used), rape(abused), promiscuity(obsessive and substitute for love) etc..) it can destroy someones soul so badly. i better stop here because i wont stop lol wink another time, another conversation maybe.

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
December 27, 2006, 11:51

i like and agree with your observations.

that saying ‘adam and eve not adam and steve’ is soooooooooo a tired and hackneed cliche. it jsut relfects people ignorance about sexual orientation and making love. they obviusly don’t understand anatomy either

Joined in 2007
March 3, 2007, 21:28

Thank you for sharing that… people tend to think that Animals don’t have soul so therefore are not human and therefore its a different matter. I have problem with that perspective. Animals do have thoughts and process thinking… they determine if you can be trusted, they have been known to act in heroic ways, they have saved human lives etc. So yeah, there’s a bond that exist between human and animals. God made us responsible in looking after the earth and the animals. We are in charge of their welfare and good grief, we did horribly wrong by that standard. Which is why I joined and support Animal Rescue. Smile.

It’s a pity no one is paying attention to this fact. 😀

Should be be accepting the bible as a literal word or do we balance it with what we see in nature?



Joined in 2007
March 8, 2007, 10:02

Animals also kill eachother and have multiple partners. Does this make it ok for us to commit murder and adultery just because it’s “natural”? No.

Animals became corrupt just like humans after sin entered the world. True nature only existed before sin, where all animals were perfect plant eaters. After sin entered the world God cursed the earth as we read in Genesis, hence nature as we know it today.

And about Adam and Steve. If it was God’s will for people to have the choice to be gay from the start then why was his first commandment to Adam and Eve to populate the earth? Sure that commandment doesn’t apply to us today but it doesn’t justify saying it’s part of God’s perfect nature. You are grasping at straws here.

Joined in 2006
March 8, 2007, 10:18

Hi Bruce, great to see your input D Well from memory, the Kings in the old testament had one wife, but they also had concubines and even Abraham had a servant girl or hand maiden with whom he had sex…….Now was God against the multiple partners of the KIngs, I havent read one scripture in the old testament stating that, the only time David was called an adulterer was when he slept with someone outside of his harem. It is well known throughout Jewish history until recent times that they had concubines even at the time of Jesus. In the new testament we are to have one partner for sure, we follow that, and also it says in the ten commandments that we not murder and we dont do that, but unfortunately some people do even with their words. The animals were not given the new covenant and Jesus didnt die for them, the reason that this particular post was entered at all was to show that even in nature their are animals that are drawn to their own sex. So actually we are not clutching at straws but looking at everything as a whole and not picking and choosing what we want to believe. Any good Bible Scholar knows that one has to look at the audience being addressed in the scriptures and the history of why a particular letter was written, that is how I was taught and it still gets taught in just about every church I have ever attended, and these churches are not small in number and well respected.

Also, it makes sense and is common sense to know that when God created humans that how else was he going to populate the earth to start with, of course you need male and female but also Adam and Eve was all there was, we had to start somewhere.

We do not want an earth that is completely homosexual, that would be silly and a far fetched ideal, we make up a small percentage of the world population as a whole and hardly think it will make a dent in the world fizzling out of a lack of people. Nothing in the world is as it was originally intended that is why we are waiting for Jesus return so that it can be as it was intended under his rule, as the bible says there will be no giving or taking in marriage in heaven and of the new earth there is nothing mentioned, so we will all be celibate by the sound of it anyway and happy together as one under christ since we will be with Him and he will at that time be enough. Bless ya Bruce……hope to hear more from you. wink

Joined in 2007
March 8, 2007, 10:48

Using that argument you could claim we don’t have to follow any of the Bible because it wasn’t written directly to us in the first place. I agree a lot of the old testament is not for us but the laws still tell us what sin is. We don’t have to follow the laws to receive salvation but that doesn’t mean the definition of sin has changed. You say you can’t pick and choose, but homosexuality is listed in Corinthians as being a sin as well as Leviticus.

So why would God include something sinful in his original creation? Yes, animals can do those things today but that doesn’t mean God originally designed them that way. You tried to prove my comparisons wrong but totally missed the point; Just because animals do something doesn’t make it right for us.

Joined in 2005
March 8, 2007, 11:15

i dont remember readng anywhere in the Bible where it says that the animals sinned, or were affected by sin???? that is news to me… where does it say that Bruce??

also, welcome to the group. Hopefully you will something from us as we learn things from you…


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