Its so true, if we had all the answers, we would go our merry way and say “ok, I know it all now, God? who? oh yeh!!! yes he is great, dum de dum” well maybe not exactly that lol but you know wink

As Paul said, we are all running a race, how we run depends on us and our r/ship with God……..I see it like this, when you have a veryyyyyyyyy long race ahead of you, youre gonna get tired along the way, need some water and always great to have people cheering along the way, some races even have sleep overs, so when we get a little stuck or lost dont beat yourself up, as we often do, we are still in the race, just having a breather and like in one of the olympics, when we fall or hurt ourselves there is always someone if we let them, to help us keep going. (referring to the olympic race where a man from africa fell over and a guy way in front came back and helped him finish the race by allowing him to lean on him)…..Jesus is like that, as battered and bruised as we may become he will help us and set others along side to help us too. Dont lose heart, anyone, even talking to myself, we will make it. Gods defination of a winner is very different to how we define that word. Lets be kind to ourselves a little.

lol, I think we have had this conversation before Anthony. I look at my persona more as ‘good creation’ than good person. The NIV uses the term ‘workmanship’ and some other version that I can’t remember uses ‘materpeice’. We are all God’s masterpeices and that makes us very good in that sense, he says so himself.

But I supose I understand myself to also be intrinsicaly bad as well, due to the fall and because of this sin Adams and my own I am reliant on God for grace and salvation. I am not goood enough to make it on my own.

I supose it could be more susinctly summed up by saying it is He that makes me good and all good things come from Him. We can get a bit too independant I think if we believe we are good apart from God.

So i don’t go on about how bad i am. I feel good….I think i live a good life….I cant even litter and not get stopped by my conscience. If I step out of integrity I feel physically ill and become weak.

I can relate to the feeling ill if you step out of integrity, Anthony. I even feel bad if I discover that I have unwittingly said something that is untrue, or if if find out that something I said or did has hurt someone.

Yet there are those who would tell me that because I am in a same-sex relationship that my conscience is seared due to my ‘wilful’ disobedience.

That’s the one I have never understood, when I know that my conscience not only functions, but often functions above and beyond where it needs to. 🙂

*shrugs* I supose we will just have to agree to disagree. I supose God getting sick of our groveling depends on how we do it. Saying the words over and over again may get tiresome yes, even to God. But there are other ways in which to show that we are reliant on the grace of God and that is the only position we are ever in. Coming to him when we sin, relying on God, asking for forgiveness and grace. The WAY we live shows what our relationship with God is like. I think there is a healthy humility that we can all acheive. It doesnt mean we need to go around with poor self esteem feeling wicked. But I belive that we do in a sense live at Gods feet, we rely on Him, we NEED Him and any relationship in which you are totally dependant on something is never going to be equal.

And just for the sake of the argument I think there is a HUGE difference between a relationship with God and a relationship with a son or daughter.

Oh my gosh, I did that too!! I felt so bad throwing and giving away books, its totally against my nature! 😆 But I have never regreted it. In the end I came to the conclusion that I was relying on books to tell me about God, about homosexuality, about life and not living it. Books can be helpul just as they can be unhelpful but they are not the end all be all that I had made them out to be.

As far as pro-gay theology goes I supose that books become essential in the sense that you need the cultural and linguistic subltities to be explained as they are not dirrectly evident in the text. Be warned though the more books you read the more confused you are likely to get. Take Boswell or Spong or Kirby. They all have different ideas about what the bible says even if they all come to the same conclusion they have different ways of getting there and draw different meaning from the text. If the bible is suposed to be an objective tool of reference in a world in which we are aliens then all I can say is “huh?”

It is confusing to not have any answers and a million questions. That is why it is so important to live with integrity in the here and now. If you wait until you are completly sure to be honest with God, with your family or friends then chances are you will be in heaven and life on earth is over anyway. God has compassion and mercy for the honest struggler.