Recently out gay guy with conflicting christian mindset.HELP

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Joined in 2007
August 28, 2007, 20:07

Hi Nick,

In case you don’t already know I am kind of the opisition leader on this forum. We agree on education and roads but those industrial relations policies must go!! 😆 (someone please tell me I have that vaugely right, so behind on Aussie politics).

I never thought I’d fight this viewpoint until recently when I met someone. I’m totally in love with him and I want to spend my future with him, but at the same time there is this sense of guilt and fear that i will end up in hell.

I’m so scared sometimes that even thinking of telling my family I just get very anxious because I know i will lose all family and friends and be outcasted. I dont know if I’m strong enough to fight them. What I’m scared about is that I’m even starting to think of suicide as an option, although i have no intentions of doing it. Just the thought of thinking it as an option scares me because I feel how depressed i get when I think about it.

Absolutly you should look into some of the pro-gay resources, this site is great for that. And if theologically you are convnced of the pro-gay approach then the best of luck to you! But I encourage you not to make a decision about the intentions of God or the validity of scriptures based on your feels for another person. It’s certainly easier but in the end it’s not sustainable, you will always question because no one but God himself can be your motivation.

I am a conservative, relitivl right-winged Christian. As such I do not engage in homosexual intercourse or as Anthony mentioned foster intimacy with the same sex. As someone holding this view, let me assure you, homosexuality is not a heaven or a hell issue. God is not going to smite you my friend. We are saved through faith in Christ, period. Heterosexuality does not give you a free pass into heaven and homosexuality does not ensure hell. If you are a Christian, then you are saved, that is the glorious promise of the scriptures.

Why then does anyone bother taking my stance? Because life is not about whether we go to heaven or hell, we can’t acheive that for ourselves through anything we do or don’t do. Our lifes purpose is to glorify God. Let me tell you, death does not glorify God. I have gone through some similar suicidal experinces and written about it in the link “God loves you” so I have some idea what I’m talking about. Lets face it, we are not acceptable to God without Christ and the whole Christian life is about picking yourself up and repenting.

There are three importnat questions you need to ask yourself

1. Which side of the debate is the most reliable? No which side do I like better

2. Who am I living my life for? Jesus or myself?

3. Can I live authentically no matter what decision is come too?

many people suggest that no, if you are not activly homosexual then you don’t live authetically. I disagree. I am a lesbian, I am a Christian, I don’t belive those two are compatable so I use one to fight the other, but I am lying to no one, I am an honest, happy person. Alot of the distress you are feeling does not come from a indecision over theological study, but secrecy and shame that is really misplaced. Yes I don’t argue that homosexuality is a sin, but it is no more of a sin than greed or gossiping. We know that when we confess these sins they are forgiven, so too are yours. Rely on God for your strength, rememeber that life is about glorifying Him, to think of it as a heaven or hell conquest is totally missing the point of the gospel. Rejoice brother you are saved!!

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
August 28, 2007, 20:35

Celibacy is a choice that some make and i honour peoples right to choose. Sandy is one of those people.

Nick you may find the debate confusing and in the end tiresome. the are sites that cover all sides of the debate. Not sure if you are aware of all the differnet positons one can take on the issue……..this will show you how complex it can become

Some people find this model helps give thenm clarity.

you maybe asking what is my position?

i’m currently celibate. I didn’t choose to be celibate but i am for several reasons. one is I dont do one night stands, saunas, beats, backrooms etc because i’m not looking for sex i’m looking for a relationship. The other important thing to mention is that since I came out and starting loving me, the sexual addiction that developed during my years of self loathing and secrecy….no longer exists.

if i fell in love with a man i and want to express that love in a commtted monogamous relationship i wouldn’t feel that was immoral. I feel it would be using the gift of sexuality God gave me an a wholesome and healthy way that would take our relationship to an intimate level…….otherwise what we would have could only ever be nothing more than a friendship.

Joined in 2007
August 28, 2007, 21:22

Thanks Sandy for what you wrote. I feel like a little bit of the burden I’m carrying is lifted off after reading what you wrote. But I still have a lot to think about the questions you asked. Their profound questions I havent answered myself, and feel the need to.

AVB, I have been doing the whole cruising thing when i was living as a Christian because I was living a double life (like everyone else who is living a double life i guess). When I met my now partner I decided to come out to some of my non-christian friends who i knew would be very supportive. Since then i have no desire to do the whole cruising thing anymore because I’m very happy with who I’m with. Part of the reason I wanted to be with him was because we wanted the same thing, ie intimacy and monogamy. I know deep inside thats what I was craving for everytime I go cruising. That is why a part of me is thinking (sometimes) that I would be very very happy if I wasnt a christian. But I could never deny the fact that Jesus is real and he was, and is still, the best thing that ever happened to me.

Also since coming out I’m also beginning to explore the gay scene more (the whole oxford st clubbing scene) with some of my gay friends. I dont like some of what I see but i’m seeing a lot of side that I never saw before and enjoy. I enjoy going for a night out and clubbing and dancing. This use to be a big no-no for me last year. But now I’m doing it a lot (well, relatively) and I kinda enjoy it. I dont even know if thats a good thing or a bad thing.

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
August 28, 2007, 23:29

hey Nick…’ll see in our guidelines here ( ) that we have no agenda or judgement…….you are an adult and canmake the right decisions that show respect for yourself and others.

maybe you might like to join us at one of monthly get togethers where you can meet others on the same journey you are.

Joined in 2007
August 29, 2007, 12:25

That is why a part of me is thinking (sometimes) that I would be very very happy if I wasnt a christian

In a way, I am so glad you wrote that. It’s time more people faced up to the reality that Christianity is HARD. The bible promises great gifts, spiritual enlightenments, protection, love and abundance. What does reality often bring though? The very opposite. We face challenge after challenge, fall after fall and exclaim in frustration “Why me?, why Lord if you want me to succeed do you make it so hard to do so?” I don’t claim to be an authority on the subject but the bible is so lets look at Job. Job had all the good things the bible promises, he was God’s pet project or so to speak. The devil countered saying “oh how easy it is to be Christian when things are going well, why not? But is that really faith in you? Is faith really faith when it hasn’t been challenged?” (a paraphrase) So the Lord allowed Satan to take away all Jobs riches, Job suffered, Job cried out to the Lord! And the Lords response? “Job I made the earth and everything in it! I am in control not you! When you take away everything else you have faith in me as your only guide, that is sufficient”. The point? God challenges us! Christianity is not easy, discipleship is not easy because anything of worth is hard to attain. We can not save ourselves and thankfully Jesus has attained it for us. But we need to show our love and gratitude to Him who saves by living the new covenant that is embedded in our hearts.

We all suffer periods of time where God challenges us, grows our wisdom and faith not through material or emotional prosperity but through a lack of all things else but Him. He strips away our comforts, our wants, our desires and leaves us with His word and builds our faith as we struggle to worship and praise Him still. Sometimes all I can get out in prayer is to thank God for the lives of other people so tragic I believe my own life to be at that time. But what is the Christian life if not a constant struggle against sin, a progression of failure followed by the glorious saving grace of Christ.

I think when dealing with something long term like homosexuality its helpful to have a big picture view. Look at Psalm 73. david is envious of all the prosperity of godless people, he I think wishes at times he wasnt a christian because he has to deny himself this ambition, prosperity and so forth, or alternatly because he is directly suffering for the gospel and these people live seemingly ‘normal’ lives. But then he looks at the big picture and says well what about salvation!! I will be saved by the Lord for my suffering and these others, who live life by their own rules and do not acknowledge the supremacy of God, they will die. There is an internal struggle, our Godly nature that was reborn in us with Christ struggles with our sinful one, parts of all of us know that it would be easier not to be a Christian. But I ask again, what is life about? Glorifying Jesus no matter what and recognizing that he is in all things or to glorify ourselves? I am telling you, if you have faith in Jesus you will never be satisfied to glorify only yourself.

Another important question to ask is, who do I think God is? What does he think of me? Whats he all about? How can we be asked to make life decisions for a God if we don’t even know Him? Getting to know God and glorifying Him is twenty thousand million times more important than anything else in the world ever. The question we have to ask of homosexuality is not what does psychology say or what does the church say, but what does God say. God’s word is truth and despite our own feelings we need to comply with it to bring glory to Him.

Personally, monogamy makes no difference to the validity of a homosexual relationship in my opinion. If its a sin then its a sin, whether you love the person or not. I disagree with Anthony when he says love can never be wrong. It can. I love a whole bunch of things in this world that I shouldn’t. Anything that supersedes the love we have for God, its idolatry and it needs to go.

You inspired me to change my signature at the bottom of this post, trust in the Lord and he will fight for you. The strength, courage and resilience you have and will have all come from Him. Be still my friend and get to know God, revel in his presence and come back to him as a source of replenishment and rejuvenation.

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
August 29, 2007, 15:11

good verse Sandy

Joined in 2006
August 29, 2007, 15:20

Indeed a good verse )

The story of Job is a great story and one I am sure many can relate to, its a kindve desert experience on a personal scale compared to the exodus of the Israelites with Moses. Job indeed was in his comfort zone and he thought that nothing could challenge his faith in the God he loved, who had laid everything before him. God wanted to see if Job being stripped of everything would still follow him, Job battled and had those who tickled his ear with what he wanted to hear, he had his own little support group of a pity party so to speak. But at the end of the day, Job just gave in and said “whatever you decide for my life God is fine by me, youre in charge” and Job had a renewed trust in God and God blessed him.

As a christian I know what it is like to give up everything and I mean everything to follow God, I gave up the woman I loved, the friends I loved and the lifestyle I knew to follow God, I stumbled in the first year and a bit but then went full steam ahead, resisted my sexual temptation with women for 8 yrs. Did I have great friends in that time in the church? No. My supportive great friends werent christian. I even had persecution at church and some things that happened that were purely wrong but I never gave in not once, if that wasnt enough I was even struck down ill whilst I was so full on for God and diagnosed with MS, did I give up? No and still kept going, then on top of that then hit with Arthritis,did I give up? No I still kept going and still battled with my orientation. I was under 32 years old. Am I looking for applause in saying all this? definately no.

Then one day, I gave in to my orientation, I prayed Lord if you dont want me to do this I wont, I always heard from God very clearly and I got nothing. So I went into a lez r/ship, I was 34. It didnt work and sensed God telling me to leave but stupid me didnt and went thru hell but when I did and threw myself back on with God along with my orientation and being honest with him about it, I have never been more blessed and my health and body are steadily recovering. I am in a new r/ship and never had anyone treat me as wonderfully as my g/f does in every way. I am still full on for God.

What am I trying to say here? God does want to see how much we do love him at certain times in our life, I have been tested in every way so far that he obviously knew I could cope with, bible even says he doesnt put on us more than we can bear personally and we all have our breaking points but he gives us the strength to endure. Job was shown his end and at the end of the day after being pissed with God he still turned to God. Anthony has been pissed with God but at the end of the day he returned to God and how many more out there are the same way.

Jesus said something wonderful when Peter asked him about John “and what of that disciple over there what will become of him?” and Jesus said “what is it to you if I want him to live until I return?” Jesus had no qualms about going against natural law that has been put in place of how long a person can live. Jesus said “YOU follow ME” in other words take your eyes off what I allow for this or allow for that one, or give this one or that one, you keep your eyes on me and what I Jesus want for you……..We as christians may have similar experience and similar things common in the faith but no christian has exactly the same r/ship or walk with God, we need to find what God wants personally for us and walk in that. So, to anyone I would say, draw near to God and see what he wants for you and what he wants for you he will give you the strength to get through and it may not be the same as the next persons. But whatever you do, dont be afraid to draw near to him.

This is a predictable responce on my behalf but what I believe I do so in faith and whatever we do that is not of faith is considered sin. I walk by faith as a lesbian christian.

Joined in 2007
August 29, 2007, 19:04

Maggie, I hope you have not taken my comment about your ‘predictability’ the wrong way. 😥 Actually, I think being predictable in the things you say as a Christian is a very good thing, it denotes certainty and reinforces your point of view. A Christian who contridicts herself or has scattered viewpoints is not very reliable. You are not such a Christian and my comment was meant as a compliment. 🙂

God does not give us anything we can’t handle, and I think our christian society places so much emphasis on the things we are expected to ‘do’ as Christian people that nobody takes time just to relax and be in Gods presence. We are not on a time limit with God, He has been there always and will be there always, whats the rush?

Yes that verse is good isn’t it? Maybe a little out of context as it comes from Exodus but then a favourite anology of mine is the struggle of homosexuality as a journey from slavery in Egypt to the promised land, been over done in so many books I know, but its a goodin.

Joined in 2006
August 29, 2007, 19:51

None taken dont worry D (I just had a peri-menopausal slip lol ) There are many awesome scriptures and gold bars we can find about God and his nature and the revelation their of scattered all through the Bible. Every now and then as we are growing and moving along as his kids, some will speak to us more than others as he reveals himself bit by bit to us.

I hope and pray Nick that you would take some quiet time just to “be” in his presence and let God speak to your heart. As Sandy said, we just need to be still for a moment with him. “Peace be still and know that I am God” is wonderful and isnt meant to come across as a “Im the master submit and shut up” its more like ” hush now, dont be so worried, I am your God, I know whats going on, be still and trust me to take care of things, I wont condemn you or let you go, youre my child, I have you carved on the palm of my hand forever because of my Son, rest in my love for you”

Joined in 2007
August 31, 2007, 00:47

Seems like the general suggestion is for me to sit still and listen to God. Honestly I havent done that in a long time now, mainly because I feel like I have let God down for chosing to be with my partner and there is a sense of guilt and shame with approacting God. But there is a deeper part of me that is yearning to be with God in an intimate way like I use to.

Man…what ever happened to being childlike b4 God. Everything seems complicated now.

AVB, where can I buy a copy of your book? Are they sold in general bookstore?

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