hmmmm yes I do feel that being away from church can certainly help with trying to gather your own thoughts rather than be brainwashed by the way a certain group of people think! I agree it’s hard to tell the difference with your “internal voice” sometimes and where the thought patterns are actually coming from. Certainly there would be plenty of examples in history where people have acted or delivered messages “in the name of god” inappropriately!! i guess those who used to fit into the church or wanted to sometimes miss that sense of spirituality that was once there – but like you say Anthony this is where its great to connect in with others in the same boat…

i like what you say magsdee that sometimes you end up with a whole lot more unanswered questions, yet it is in this place that you can begin a new kind of spiritual connection – i guess i kind of get what you’re saying yet at the same time am not quite feeling it yet! let’s just say one based on honesty is a whole lot better than a whole lot of crap facades or expectations that church/people place on you!

Certainly there would be plenty of examples in history where people have acted or delivered messages “in the name of god” inappropriately!!

You may find this interesting….. a new blog I’ve just created.

“The Great Heresy – Homosexuality is a sin”

http://avb7.wordpress.com/

i like what you say magsdee that sometimes you end up with a whole lot more unanswered questions, yet it is in this place that you can begin a new kind of spiritual connection –

Its a fabulous place to live………living in the mystery…..not knowing is a far better place. We’ve come from a culture that prides itself in having all the answers but in saying they know the truth they reveal their ignorance.

Once upon a time Sandy I would have reacted that way for real. I was so determined that there were absolutes in basically all things. Being a parent, going through an ugly divorce, parenting on my own, working in church, beign disillusioned by church, some prayers were answered in my favour and some not, and coming out has really changed my views alot on a great many things.

Many say the bible is absolute truth, that our life experiences are besides the point. However, the whole bible is full of experiences of individuals/peoples. What is one’s life if not life experience??

anyway, i could really get into this discussion and it would just tire me and bore everyone else lol.

thing is many people wont agree with the life experience aspect until they experience a bit more of life and have a few more years behind them themselves

Ohhh Maggie did you just pull the AGE card? 😆 😆

I think I got in trouble with the whole morality/experience/bible/homosexuality thing before about eight thousand times so I’ll try to keep my mouth shut… kind of. I just have one comment.

Experience isn’t measured in years. I am only almost 25 and I have had quite an number of experinces that most people here never have. I will also never in my entire lifetime experience some of the things other people will. The only way that experience can be coupled with morality is if you comit to the idea that what defines morality and what exists apart from it (immorality) is determined by that persons own, individual experiences. If that were true then we wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) have laws because they are an arbitrary indicator of right or wrong that does not give consideration to individual moralities.

The only way that works is if there is no universal morality for anything at all. Why then would it be wrong to kill? To steal? To rape? In some peoples experiences and world views this is perfectly acceptable. In Bali many drug dealers are sentenced to death, in China communism means that all I have worked for, all that would be considered mine in a capitalist society is not mine at all. In Uganda young women are raped at 14 or 15 by their husbands who own them like animals. Is this moral if it can be justified by their experiences and culture or does there have to be some uniserval, absolute standards? Like I said, living in the mystery is a matter of opinion and I havn’t even touched on God the bible or homosexuality yet! Don’t worry Anthony… I’m stopping here 😉

well what i meant, at the risk of getting heavy and depressing …

life experience versus what people read into what the bible says – why does one person get ‘healed ‘ from cancer while the other dies and both went to the same church, both went to the prayer meetings, both paid their tithe and gave offerings and both had lovely families?

Why does one child, through no fault of their own, have a horrible up bringing and their next door neighbour had a great one?

According to so many, your faith lacks etc if you do not overcome and have your life change to be one of good things

yet so many must endure pain and suffering, have great attitudes and pray continually for miraclulous provision etc and still nothing changes.

I use to be one that held to the bible as being the Word of God where he would ‘come through’ and you would see changes in bad circumstances etc. But the reality is that even in the bible some had crap lives, were faithful but situations in their lives did not change or even got worse while others, it did get better. This is where i see the bible and God as being very personal/individual.

I do not understand how he throws that dice, how some get this in their life and others get that

but if we live our life in envy/jealousy, comparing ourselves to others, being told and believing we are less than they are who have got great stuff in their life then we lose out on happiness we can have, regardless of our circumstances in life.

We need to keep sweet in our attitude as much as we can, if nothing else for our own sanity.

sometimes i think glory goes to God just as much if not more when we can smile even when our life is crappy, compared to someone else close around us/in church or wherever. They may judge you, saying you are doing something wrong or whatever but the truth is so often the opposite. Why do some business people for example, just get richer and richer have all they need and want but rip people off?? Some even die rich etc etc so you can’t say they reaped their bad seed in this lifetime, some do some don’t. It is not the same for all is what i am meaning. There is not one rule for all in this life.

i do not see in life experience what is preached from the pulpits, at least the pulpits i have listened to. Bad things happen to good people. Like it or lump it. It is what you do with those experiences whether good or bad that causes happiness or despair.

Not, ‘give more in the offering’ or ‘pray harder’. or repeat like a parrot these verses.

not sure if i have made sense