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What Happened to the Call?

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gettingthere
 
Joined in 2008
March 10, 2009, 22:03

This is one reason why I don’t want to come out, I am constantly misconstrued for what I don’t believe in.


It seems to me that with many Christians, if you tell them that you don’t believe homosexuality is sin, you might as well have told them that you just bit off the heads of all of their children. Because when it comes to homosexuality, most Christians utterly fail to think rationally anymore and respond with pure emotionalism and unhinged religious fervor. They won’t admit it, but it’s true – that kind of behavior is like wearing a big neon sign that says I’M PREJUDICED. Only hate and prejudice would cause someone to react in such a way. A Christian who is walking in love and willing to listen to what others have to say would never respond harsly to a homosexual giving a simple explanation of their beliefs.


On another note, JR, I must say your views are very new to me. I’ve never heard anyone say that homosexuality is okay, but anal sex is not… first time I’ve ever thought of it. I don’t think I agree totally, but it’s an interesting thought and I’d consider it some more I guess.


One other thing I’d like to say… several people I’ve been in contact with think that I want to push some gay interpretation of the Bible or something. That’s absolutely not what it’s about for me. What I want is for people to come together and let their be reconciliation between the church and the gay community. Understanding is far more important than uniformity. Even if people don’t agree with me, I accept that. What I do not accept is rude, disrespectful behavior. Just because you think I’m wrong doesn’t mean you can’t be civil and that I’m some kind of monster out to slaughter you all. I’m actually a pretty nice person. We can be friends. In fact, some of my best friends ever have believed that homosexuality is a sin, but they still love me and they to me serve as examples of how to disagree and do it right. 🙂



iplantolive
 
Joined in 2008
March 11, 2009, 21:07

What I want is for people to come together and let their be reconciliation between the church and the gay community. Understanding is far more important than uniformity.


One of the first F2b chapter meetings in Sydney I went to, Anthony talked about creating a space for dialogue between the Church and the GLBT community outside of the normal, traditional channels. The basic idea is that you overcome all the usual barriers such as fear, ignorance and hate between the two groups by communicating on a different level that encourages respect, tolerance and understanding of each others views.



johnrobert
 
Joined in 2009
March 11, 2009, 21:30

I have a particularly quirky attitude here – with no disrespect intended.


But I think one’s sexual preferences should be respected and shouldn’t be forced. Nor should you feel like a philistine for having a dislike for a particular preference, and wish to communicate that.


If I don’t like something, that too has to be respected.


Too often, I have found, in trying to conform to the ‘gay’ mould, that I am in the wrong for not liking this or not liking that.


It’s almost enough for me to say, ‘Well, that proves it! I’m not Gay!’.


I’m no monster, please do not be offended at my offense at certain gay practice, but those are simply my preferences.


Saying that I’m therefore a villian for not complying, or for not saying that such or such a practice is enjoyable, is rather like disrespect also.


I certainly don’t like it when my preferences are ignored – then it becomes rape.


How much better it is to be out in the open, so that all know. I’m gay – but I just don’t believe in anal sex.


I judge myself – not others.



Myfanwe
 
Joined in 2007
March 11, 2009, 21:42

Hi JR,


I’m very pleased to hear that my post about “The call” has touched some part of you and resonated in your spirit. It’s great to feel that my words connected with someone else.


I don’t think that anyone means to condemn you over your preferences, I certainly don’t.


It’s sometimes hard to make one’s intent and meaning clear in the written word and things can be read by someone as sounding harsh or judgemental when that’s not the intention behind the words at all.


I guess it comes down to finding the best way we can, to write down our feelings and preferences, while also remembering that written words can, like bullets, sometimes ricochet and hit a target we never intended. That stirs up feelings, and hot words can fly before we realize that it is all just a bit of miscommunication. 🙂



gettingthere
 
Joined in 2008
March 12, 2009, 22:21

I don’t have any problem with your preferences at all. I think that’s cool. I hope you weren’t referring to me in your post, because I totally don’t have any problem with it. I know there are many people who are opposed to anal sex. I am not opposed to it, but if somebody else, I respect their beliefs, because there genuinely are perfectly good reasons to not like it. So I’m certain some people out there probably would take you to task about it, but I wouldn’t. I hope you understand me. 🙂



johnrobert
 
Joined in 2009
March 12, 2009, 22:39

That’s OK, I’m really only being generic.


It’s a sticking point with me for many reasons, it’s also the reason why me and my lifetime partner split up, so there’s a lot of regret and heartache tied up with it as well.


As you can imagine, I also for that reason dislike being asked (and occasionally I do get asked), ‘So what do you like doin’ – givin’ or receivin’~?’.


I have to step back a moment, and say, ‘Neither’, then they look at me as if to say ‘What r you doin’ in a gay bar anyway….?’


That’s part of the reason also why I stopped going to gay bars….



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
March 14, 2009, 21:21

But I think one’s sexual preferences should be respected and shouldn’t be forced.


Just a suggestion about political correctness and terminology here.


The term that is most accepted by the GLBT community is sexual orientation not sexual preference.


Sexual preference is a term often used by heterosexuals and particularly those who of the Christian persuasion who believe our orientation is a choice…..hence the term preference. …..implying that I have a choice and I’m am preferring to be attracted to men as opposed to the opposite sex….when in real terms I have no choice…..its the way I’m wired. the only choices I have are to accept it, deny it, suppress it etc….but it can’t be changed.


it may seem like a fine line with the words…….but many with our community find the term sexual preference quite offensive……which I know was not your intention Robert.



Sandy
 
Joined in 2007
March 15, 2009, 10:40

The term that is most accepted by the GLBT community is sexual orientation not sexual preference.


While the distinct meanings of sexual orientation and sexual preferance shouldn’t be ignored, I think in fact, people do have sexual preferances. Not to be homosexual or heterosexual but to choose how they demonstate this sexually. For example a HUGE debate in the lesbian community is the use of dildos (sorry to gross you out guys! 😆 ). Is it mimicking herterosexual sex and maintaining the patriarchy or is it just another way to have sex as a lesbian? Whether or not you choose to have sex in that particular way is actually a preferance something which neither adds to nor detracts from your orientation. That is my reading of the term sexual preferance and I think thats what Robert was getting at too… or at least thats the way I read it.



johnrobert
 
Joined in 2009
March 15, 2009, 13:26

This makes it quite difficult, as for me the word ‘preference’ means the likes/dislikes WITHIN one’s orientation.


I.e. I am of homosexual orientation, yet my preference is for oral sex.


My preference is not to have anal sex, etc…


In this sense, I believe that orientation AND preferences can’t be changed.


Behaviour? Practice? Whilst orientation and preferences cannot be changed, what about behaviour and practice?


This is complex.


If it has become an addiction, it certainly cannot be changed, not without power and prayer.


If it is not an addiction, (in other words in our control), we can exercise our behaviour/practice according to our free will.


This once again differs from orientation and preference.


In my case, I had an addiction to sex, which meant that I had to cruise the streets looking for gay sex. In many cases I was successful.


But in the cases I was not successful, I became stressful and manic.


In the end even wanking oneself proved to be a fruitless exercise. And then I knew I was desperate.


Not able or wanting to cruise anymore, and not even able to satisfy myself sexually, I became desperate to the point of suicide, and even tried to take my life.


My only consolation later on was to find a partner through a gay personals service, which was later ended because there was little social aspect to the relationship, it was only sexual.


Having tried both the manic highs and lows of a promiscuous gay lifestyle, and the stability of a partnered relationship, I found out I was unhappy with neither, and sought the Church.


NOW whilst the Church did not heal me of my orientation, it did heal me of my addiction to sex.


And I remain at that point of healing today.


I still feel physically (sexually) attracted to men, and whilst I prefer the company of women, I prefer a man in bed.


Tying it back with the original focus of this posting, What happened to the call? I have to say, I believe I am fulfilling my calling through contributing to Freedom 2 b(e), and meeting/discussing these issues with similarly minded people.


Too often the truth doesn’t lie in any particular person or codified body of thought, but has to be ‘teased’ out through open discussion, and through the trials and errors of personal experience.


I hope Freedom 2 b(e) will allow me to progress along this road of reconciliation between my orientation and my faith.



johnrobert
 
Joined in 2009
March 15, 2009, 13:45

Thanks, Sandy, for your cross-posting.


I can see where you’re coming from and you are in correct in sensing what I intended to communicate.


And I also find a parallel within the male gay community with regards to a debate over male homosexual preferences.


Isn’t anal sex an attempt merely to replicate the ‘peg’n’holes’ aspect of heterosexual sex?


In that sense, it is nothing original or true.


The only ‘true’ male homosexual practice, is in fact, frottage, or mutual penis rubbing to ejacuation (advance apologies, girls!). This is something only male homosexuals can do. =).


For further information on frottage, read the excellent Wikipedia article, or the Man2Man Alliance websites, which go further in articulating the ‘frottage’ vs. anal sex debate in the male homosexual community.


‘Pegs’n’holes’ is the main aspect of heterosexual sex anal sex between males merely copies this.


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