Questions, questions, questions ...

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Joined in 2006
November 15, 2007, 10:30

Yes best of luck Sandy D Show them that wearing Grans curtains doesnt impede on brain cells wink lol

Joined in 2007
November 15, 2007, 10:44

Shh Maggie!! Don’t you know how to keep a secret woman! 😆 I haven’t worn that outfit since. My roommate thinks that my oh so terrible fashion sense proves how much of a lesbian I am, as if there was any doubt! Thanks for the well wishes I will need them.

It’s ok Anthony, we all know that as you get OLDER and OLDER you become forgetful, we are very tolerant of the aged at F2B. 😆

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
November 15, 2007, 10:51

yep……so glad we are not ageist. 😆

Joined in 2006
November 15, 2007, 10:52

lol lol lol lol lol Ohhhhhhhhhh Myyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!

Hissssssss!!!!!!!!! Woooofffffffffff!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol lol

Joined in 2007
November 15, 2007, 11:02

lol this is getting a bit passive aggressive now isn’t it? 😆 Time to stop procrastinating and study. Thanks for the laughs, great stress relief.

Joined in 2007
November 15, 2007, 20:59

Anthony, thanks for posting that passage of scripture, it also reminded me of James 4:17 “Whoever knows what is right and doesn’t do it is sinning.”

I’ve always understood that to mean that if something is wrong for you it is just wrong, and if something is right it is right, and going contrary to either boundary is ‘sin’ for the person who is compromising their personal boundaries.

I even had that understanding of sin/not sin when I was sitting in the pews nodding off er I mean nodding a surface agreement to the ‘party line’ preached each Sunday.


Joined in 2007
November 16, 2007, 18:07

So what you are saying is WE, the mere creation, define what is right and wrong and God follows our lead?

Sounds a bit like Adam and Eve in the garden eating from the tree thinking that they were equal to God, which is pretty dangerous, I mean the first time it lead to the fall of all mankind… I get the feeling God was pissed off about it don’t you?

Joined in 2007
November 16, 2007, 18:24

hehe Sandy, I knew you’d say that and, well, that kind of depends on whether you believe the Garden of Eden actually happened or if it was a metaphorical story along the lines of an Aesops fable.

With a bit of a Liberal Jewish background, I tend towards the latter.

What I do believe is that God if he/she/it exists, requires that we have integrity in our relationships with it, and with each other. For me, living a straight life when I know I am homosexual is not living with integrity.

I have enough anecdotal evidence in my own life to believe that God could exist and to back my belief by entering the ministry, but I doubt that God exists more often than I believe, if I am entirely honest.

I just wanted to state that that is my understanding of the passage. I don’t think that the Bible can be used to condemn homosexuality, simply because it was written in times when the relationships we see today were not understood and because the Levitical Law was for Jews, and not Gentiles, which we are, actually.

I don’t think of it as a license to do as we please and expect God to follow along. I do think, that we need to be people of integrity with ourselves and with God and that includes living within our own (god given if you like) boundaries.


Joined in 2007
November 16, 2007, 19:23

Ah when people can pre-empt what I am about to say I know I have become predictable 🙂 I felt a bit naughty though using pissed off and God in the same sentence… living on the edge I am! 😆

My problem with that is that its all so subjective. Just because person x happens to take a more postmodern view of things than person y what they belive can be totally different, and they both live with ‘integrity’ in accodance with their own personal standards.

You remind me a bit of my sister in law and we have these discussions frequently, they usually end in some pesudo cat fighting, I still have the fingernail marks. 😛

If I believe that homosexuality is a sin (which I’m not necessarily suggesting I do, since we are writing in the spirit of honesty) and you belive it isn’t, then those two beliefs can not both co-exist as true, one person has to be wrong.

To take it a step further you could say that Hitler lived with integrity if he truely believed that killing Jews was the right course of action. He was doing what he believed in what fufilled him (I know I am using a bit of a poetical licience there but assume its true for the sake of the argument since we really have no evidence to the contrary). Yet most people would agree that his actions were not the right ones. In essence nothing is right and nothing is wrong. Take peadophilia as another example. Stdies have shown that over fifteen percent od peadophiles believe that its ok to be sexually attracted to children, that is the way they are and there is nothing wrong with it. What then? they live with integrity by acting on those impluses, they have already admitted they believe its just the way there are. For them not to act in this way would actually be dishonest, they would need to respress what they see as natural and in the end be doing the wrong thing but failing to abuse young children. In essence, nice theory but its a disaster in practise.

There is not much more to say except I am certain of Christ so my view of the ligitimacy of biblical text varies from yours.

Joined in 2007
November 16, 2007, 20:36

I am also certain that Christ existed and walked on earth and taught us a lot of useful stuff. Oddly, he was silent on the subject of homosexuality.

I find it a little strange that he didn’t mention it, if it is as big a sin as some people would have us believe. Jesus spoke of divorce, sexual immorality, hatred, jealousy, envy, defrauding the poor, lying, cheating, dishonesty and any ‘sin’ you care to think of, but he never said one word about homosexuality. I can only assume that means that it was not an issue for him.

I believe that the stories of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible speak to us of the evil of turning away from God, and the kinds of depraved acts that can lead to, and wanting to pack rape two angels is depraved, whether you are gay straight or indifferent.

Also, my saying that we should live with integrity (I did say with God) and you saying that Hitler lived with integrity, or paedophiles live with integrity when they molest children are so far separated from one another that it took my breath away.

The Bible and Jesus both teach us a way of living that does not do harm to others. Living with integrity within Moral (or god given) boundaries has absolutely nothing in common with living with integrity in such a way that can harm, or kill someone else! That is what I said, I am pretty sure.

All I can say is, let each be convinced in his own mind and leave God to be the ultimate judge.

Even though I am more inclined, since we’re being honest to embrace a Pascal’s Wager approach to God:

“Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false? If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation, that He exists.”

Blaise Pascal


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