Hi Sarab,

how are you? I hope your well, I just wanted to share my own experiences with Liberty Christian Ministries and have to agree with Ann-Maree and Ben in that , you shouldn't get involved with LCM I'll go into my own experience with LCM shortly, I was just re-reading your post, you said Quote:To cut a long story short she has joined some dots and come up with a fairly accurate picture of where I am at. I have not at all been explicit about going to an affirming church – yet she has obviously figured out that the issue of same sex relationships is what I am working through

I can certainly relate to that (as Im sure many other here can as well) I mean, I have seen a few Christian Counsellors in the past (Exodus/LCM counsellors) and like you, so much of what they said hit the mark and I felt that they were describing my own life experiences. So much so, that I was led to tears on many occasions. I may be wrong, but I think a lot of these counsellors are trained to reinforce our personal experiences (if that makes sense) they seem to be trained in sharing stories, giving examples of and "evaluating" the very things that touch us emotionally, those things that seem to be totally relevant to our own experiences and play on our emotions and desires to better our lives and stop struggling with the issues in our lives that are tormenting us and crippling us, those things that are concerning us … I think its easy for us to hear or read something and associate it with our own experiences, sometimes our experiences are similar to many others who have struggled to accept or embrace our sexuality and faith. I did read the book "WHAT SOME OF YOU WERE" – by Christopher Keane (I think this is the book your talking about) but it was so long ago that I cant remember much of it lol what I do remember was saying to myself "that's me!" -"That's exactly how I feel" -"that exactly what I am going through" and to some degree it was and as I read the "testimonies" of how people "came out of homosexuality" and were "set free" I wanted that too. (I personally question how many of these people mentioned in the book really have "abandoned homosexuality" and "been set free from the bondage of homosexuality" let alone whether any of those experiences were actually true) Only God knows. I read those "testimonies" and thought, if that happened to them, then it can happen to me! I prayed over and over again to be set free from my unwanted homosexual desires. I would force myself to avoid having contact with "anything that was gay" or any other guy I felt attracted too and I forced myself to spend time with as many woman as possible. I even stopped wearing CK one (Calvin Klein fragrance, because a Christian once told me it was a "homosexual fragrance" lol. To some degree it seemed to be working, for a short time I believed that I was starting to change. Of course the moment I found myself being attracted to some guy in the street or was tempted to watch some gay movie or whatever, I immediately felt ashamed, unloved and so so sinful & a failure. I spoke to my Pastor, he made me undergo 3 exorcisms … I started going to a different church and that's when I was referred to LCM. I attended some of their meetings, read a lot of their books and literature, in short, the more I read, the more I felt guilty because it seemed that I wasn't living up to expectation, I wasn't obeying God and just not trying hard enough. Again, everything that was mentioned in the books and flyers, everything that I was being told, seemed to fit in with how I was feeling and what I was going through, and how I was brought up, distant father, over protective mother … that kind of stuff. And yes, some of that was true (to some degree) but that's not what caused me to be gay. The more I read, the more I attended meetings, the more I felt empowered initially, when I was able to "resist temptation" and get through 1 week (or a few days) without "falling into homosexual sin" but inevitably I did "fall into homosexual sin" I did find myself being attracted to someone on the street, someone I met somewhere … whatever, and then came the cycle of guilt, shame, self-hatred, the belief that God must hate me so much, that I was destined to eternity in hell. Then came the depression, the compulsive behaviour and the suicide attempts . I believed that I wasn't a good Christian and that I must be holding on to homosexual sin even if I didn't know it! Eventually, what stared out as being a supportive Christian environment, became a very negative and unsupported environment, the very people who were suppose to help me and help me to become "set free from homosexual sin" or "the demon of homosexuality" were the same people who were telling me that I was an abomination, that God hated my sin and that I was refusing to let go of my sinful lifestyle and my immoral ways. I had "given into Satan" and needed to repent or I will be "cast into the pit of hell for eternity"

Liberty Christian Ministries did more harm then good. When they had given up on me because I refused to stand firm and not give into Satan.

They sent me to Hillsong Church to undergo their living waters program. Supposedly they had "more experience in dealing with these things" they had more resources and they would "without a doubt, set me free" and give me the skills to" live the life God intended for me" but only if I "genuinely wanted to change and turn from my sinful and wicked lifestyle" What lifestyle? I was a confused young person dealing with and trying to understand my sexuality, I was not involved in a lifestyle. I had no gay friends at that stage. And never set foot in a gay bar. Oh, but I did were CK One Men's fragrance, so must be not holding onto sin or something.

Perhaps, your experience, if you get involved with LCM would be different, but I doubt it. All I can say is tread lightly.

Brunski

Thank you so much to Hillsben, Ann Maree, Ammi, Princess Fiona and Brunski for your care and cautions about “Liberty Ministries”.

I did heed your warnings. I did however, read the book – yet did so with a sense of detachment and caution. Yes – the book was “What some of you were” ( a load of twaddle if you ask me!).

I have to say, if it wasn’t for the fact that the stories in the book were about real people and real pain – the naivety and stupidity of some of the views expressed was almost laughable.

.

I have in no way been suckered in by “Liberty ministries”.

I have never thought that one should be “healed from homosexuality” – I never thought this before coming out to myself – and I certainly don’t think that now.

The language of the book was shaming and pejorative. The editor of the book should himself be ashamed.

I knew I was in an OK space to read the book. I did so as I felt I had an obligation to my friend who sent it to me. My challenge now is how to respectfully tell her what I thought of it.

I am actually – (believe it or not) in a space where I can say that I am actually Ok with being gay. (Amazing to come to that in a short space of time… although it’s been a work in progress for some years). My challenge is how to integrate that with faith. I think though my new church will help with this. My challenge is also how to deal with the many conservative Christian friends who will continue to want to see me “healed” or to “resist temptation”.

Oh and thank you to Brunski for sharing more of your story. I can’t believe the comment about the CK fragrance – I actually laughed at the ignorance behind that comment from the guy who said it was a "homosexual fragrance" – 🙂 although of course when one ponders this it is also so terribly painful. I am so sorry to read of all you have been through – and I thank you for your continued warmth and encouragement. It is so very much appreciated. When I read about what you when through with "Liberty" – and the stories of others in the book I have just finished – it seems very heavy on "works" and very short on God's amazing grace.

Ammi – thanks for the reminder about God’s grace…. you are a wonderful encouragement too – as is Ann Maree and all who share their story and journey on this site.

Many thanks all.

Sarab xx

Hi Sarab,

Throughout your postings you have mention several times that you want to be open and honest with your friends. Can I suggest that is exactly what you do with the friend who gave you the book. This can still be done in a respectful way that will hopefully generate some thought provoking conversation for your friend. By giving you the book she has opened the door for discussion. It's on opportunity for you to be honest with her about your sexuality instead of hinting and dodging the issue. It's an opportunity for you to tell her that you are happy being gay, happy with who you are and to possible change or at least open her mind to the fact that being gay is ok with God.

As always I know you will be sensitive to your friend and not wish to upset the balance in your friendship, you respect and cherish the friendships you do have. True friendship is not one way though, friends also need to respect and accept you, your views and opinions, even if they differ from theirs. This is also an opportunity for you to tell her what you need from her as a friend.

God bless

I agree with Ammi –

I really liked what Mother Hen had to say.

Thanks so much Mother Hen – I really appreciate your time, care and thoughtfulness in responding.

As I read what you wrote I thought "good call" :). Yes you are right – I do value honesty in my friendships and what I have found difficult and anxiety provoking in recent months is the withholding of information – kind of like deceit my omission.

You are right too – that friendships are a two way street – and I liked what you said about it being an opportunity for me to tell her what I need in return from her as a friend. Yes. That is very powerful and helpful.

I wrote in my previous post that I am really in myself feeling more and more OK with my sexuality. It is however one thing to be OK myself and yet another thing to share with someone I know has very divergent views. However, a good friendship should be able to withstand these differences.

I will also give some consideration as to whether I write to her or phone her (we live in different parts of the State).

Thanks to Princess Fiona for your 4AM (!!!) words of encouragement 🙂

Thanks also to Ammi – hope all OK with you too :).

Sarab

Thanks Princess Fiona for sharing this beautiful poem and for your encouragement.

I will be working on composing a letter to my friend this weekend. BTW – just came out to a Christian friend tonight – was a safe space and she is very broad minded. Another tiny step for me – amazing.

Sarab xx