I just got my copy of the A Nyland book from amazon at a good price too 🙂

A small update and a small dilemma…

A little recap –

for those who have read some of my posts a while back you will know that my friend sent me the book "What we once were" – a pretty awful anti gay book which talked about how one can "be healed" from "same sex attraction". As you may know – I wrote back to her – (letting her know I didn't agree with the book, and that while I thanked her for her concern for me that there was not a part of me that could condone ex gay ministries or what the book had to say. I also respectfully asked her if we could not enter into "debate" about this issue – that I had already heard every Bible verse, every argument and didn't need to hear them again. Anyway, I was was grateful to advice and feedback from those on this forum as to my response to her. (I have in earlier posts pretty much shared the letter I wrote on this forum).

More recently….

A couple of weeks ago -I received a long awaited reply from my friend.

She has said in the letter that just as she would expect me to respond to her if she were to tell me that her husband had decided to take another wife and that polygamy was the right way forward for her – that she feels she needs to respond to me as a Christian friend. She has talked about the Bible being unchanging, the living word and then talks about the fact that I seem to have chosen a church that ignores certain "truths" and adapts the word to "fit their lifestyles" She also quotes one of the "clobber verses" – Romans 1:32 ("those who do such things deserve death") and she encourages me not to "water down the truth"…

I was actually very calm when I read her letter – and it is a measure of how far I have come that I could read it with some sense of detachment. And yet, it remains a reminder of how some of my friends from what I now regard as "the past" will regard me. On reflection even though she also cites Romans 2 about not passing judgement on someone else, saying she does not come to me in judgement…. the net result is that I actually feel nothing but judgement.

So…. what to do?

I hate leaving things in the air – so I am wondering about writing back – maybe to let her know that I appreciate that it must have been a hard letter to write and that I know she is concerned for me – but at this point I am not sure there's anything left for me to say – as we see things so very differently. I would appreciate the collective wisdom of the f2be community as to how to wisely, respectfully deal with this.

Thanks

Sarab

Hi sarab

I did wonder what was the response from your friend after you sent your letter to her after reading the book. The fact that both of you took a fair amount of time to send a letter to each other (yours and her recent response) shows me that a good deal of thought did go into writing them and it wasnt a knee jerk reaction on either side.

A small update and a small dilemma…

A little recap –

I thanked her for her concern for me that there was not a part of me that could condone ex gay ministries or what the book had to say. I also respectfully asked her if we could not enter into "debate" about this issue – that I had already heard every Bible verse, every argument and didn't need to hear them again.

More recently….

A couple of weeks ago -I received a long awaited reply from my friend.

She has said in the letter that just as she would expect me to respond to her if she were to tell me that her husband had decided to take another wife and that polygamy was the right way forward for her – that she feels she needs to respond to me as a Christian friend. She has talked about the Bible being unchanging, the living word and then talks about the fact that I seem to have chosen a church that ignores certain "truths" and adapts the word to "fit their lifestyles" She also quotes one of the "clobber verses" – Romans 1:32 ("those who do such things deserve death") and she encourages me not to "water down the truth"…

In your above posting three things stuck out to me;

your request to your friend to not debate this or quote bibles verse to you

In her response to you, her explaination of why she was responding to you in her way (using an example of polygamy)

Your friends quote of bible verses

It is obvious to me that she totally disregarded your resquest in your letter and did the very things you asked her not to do and used an example to justify why she was doing that.

Forestgrey has some great comments, ideas on what to do and a neutral response (assertive) is the only way to go here in my mind. I do know from my past experience with a well meaning close friend years back, that it can be a sad and painful time when things get to a crossroads over two different understandings on sexuality issues. In my situation, after we did meet face to face over coffee it was evident to me that things wouldnt be the same for us sadly. In my case the lines of communication were somewhat left opened in that we would cross paths during my work and at community meetings, but things werent the same and I avoided sharing any of my personal life again with that friend. She has since past away before our friendship was fully restored. I'm not sharing this to sound negative , forgive me if it comes across that way, simply wanted to share what happened to me and to explain to I do understand. Also most importantly that for me although I was and am still not sure spiritually where I am at, I dont regret how I handled myself. I had spent over 20 years struggling with my same sex attraction and wasn't going to give up my identity for my friend as much as I dearly loved her.

As I said, I myself am still struggling alot with what I do believe right now, so I wont comment from my belief system but rather encourage you to stand firm in your own beliefs and identity. I think its best to allow others to suggest things on how to handle your response to this.

I was actually very calm when I read her letter – and it is a measure of how far I have come that I could read it with some sense of detachment. And yet, it remains a reminder of how some of my friends from what I now regard as "the past" will regard me. On reflection even though she also cites Romans 2 about not passing judgement on someone else, saying she does not come to me in judgement…. the net result is that I actually feel nothing but judgement.

You do say, you now regrad your friend from your past. Sounds like you have moved on emotionally, knowing that this friendship were it stands now can't go any further. Who wants to feel judgement from a friend? Noone. Stay with that calmness sarab. In reading your journey it has been so evident that you haven't just arrived at where you are today without alot of searching for truth and struggling involved.

I am always so encouraged myself in reading your postings and in your now new found strenght. So glad that your not allowing anyone to steal that away or destroy that in any way. Blessing in whatever way you choose to respond to this.

Hugs

Hi Sarab,

First I just want to thank you for sharing the response from your friend and asking for some feedback. I really think it's important for others on this forum. I'm sure many others have been in similar situations (as Princess Fiona mention) where once their sexual orientation has come out they have lost friends, or had friends questioned and challenged their sexual orientation. Quoted scriptures etc, common ground that many would have. So I think it's good that you are so open in sharing this situation that you are going through with your friend, it will help others so much. Losing friends that one has been close to is hard and sad under any circumstance.

I want to share a situation I had simply because we changed church. I had a close friend, who I had been friends with for many years, our first born children were only a few weeks apart so we shared the early baby years together, and their early years of childhood.  We remained friend through moves to other towns, but the moment we left a controlling legalistic church my friend said she would have to ask her pastor if we could remain friends, he said no, so she let years of friendship just go down the drain. She now lives in the same area as me, I've seen her a few times and I (deliberately) bodily go up and say hi, remember me.  The reason I am sharing this it to point out that for some people as soon as something about you is different than what their narrow minded church believes they can drop you like a hot potatoes. 

You have had some wonderful feedback from other people. I agree with forestgrey that no good will come from debating the issue with your friend.The fact that she has taken her time to respond and chosen her words carefully and deliberately, I think shows she won't change her beliefs by doing the back and fro bit. What I will think will challenge her views is you being you, you going on enjoying your life, being more confident and comfortable in who you are. Showing her you are still the same person and same friend see has known for years. Being a wonderful testament of a gay Christian, showing her your love for God and Jesus has not changed.

As a suggestion you could respond by simply saying you value her friendship and hope that you can still remain friends but at this point I think we both need to agree to disagree. That you appreciate her response and her views and that is was all said out of loved and concern for you. However as pointed out in your letter to her that you didn't want to debate the issue. That you feel all that will achieve is hurt and a loss in friendship. I think it's important that you stand firm (follow through) on what you said in your first letter to her that you didn't want a discussion/debate on this issue. 

These are just my thoughts and suggestions , as aways you have to do what is right for you and what is comfortable for you. What sits right.

You have come such a long way is such a short time, from someone who was unsure and feeling lost. You are standing up for what you believe and who you are. I also think you are showing what a wonderful loyal friend you are. If you should lose the friendship of this friend the loss will be hers.

As always you are in my thoughts and prayers.

P.S remember you have some new wonderful friends here.

Wow! Thank you to Forestgrey, Princess Fiona, Mother Hen and Ann Maree,

When I got home from work to read your replies I felt like I had my very own "support crew" right here with me. I had a little smile to myself as I thought of the ads on TV where the person who is giving up smoking has a cheer squad in the background or the woman who chooses a particular insurance company has a team cheering her on – thanks all for being my cheer leading team!!

Forestgrey – I found your positive, negative or neutral comment extremely helpful. I had almost got there myself – but didn't have a language with which to frame it. I knew I didn't want to be "positive" – ie in the face of her comments I actually can't just plough on to try to make "everything alright" between us. Nor do I want to be negative. I don't want to have a go at her – let's remember – I too, have been in a church which taught what she has quoted to me in the letter. I don't want to debate with her – this is pointless… so yes – a "neutral position" is where I see myself most comfortable. Thanks – this word "neutral" helps me. I am not "doing nothing" I am in fact deciding to be neutral.

Princess Fiona – thanks always for your encouragement – and yes – I have moved on emotionally. I am beginning to feel more comfortable at my new church. I can begin to just be myself – and this has been a huge shift and gift and has actually brought home how much "faking it" I have done over the last 25 years involved in evangelical churches. Not just in terms of sexuality – but in terms of everything – hard to describe in writing – but I feel I have always just tried to "not make waves" – to just keep a lid on my own politics, the experiences I have with friends outside the church, oh I could go on…. I have just "kept the peace" and now I am in a church community that makes space for everyone – so this has greatly enabled me to move on emotionally from past friendships and belief systems. And yes – I agree – it speaks volumes that despite my having asked my friend not to debate, quote scriptures etc… this is what she chose to do.

Mother Hen – thank you for sharing your story. Adhering to dogma at the expense of friendships is just so short sighted and tragic. What would Christ have done? Seems to me he had a go at the "rule keepers" and talked about love instead. As for me being a "wonderful example" to my friend of being content and fulfilled – I am not quite there yet. I understand your point – but I am by no means a poster child at this point for being "gay and happy". I'd love to be able to share some of my current struggles with my friend – but I know she would see this as vindication that my acknowledgement of being gay and my decision to move to a church which is affirming is the root cause of my struggle and confusion. Perhaps in the future she will see a more content me. 🙂 And yes – I will continue to be happy to share aspects of my journey if i feel it will help others on this forum. I have been so enormously helped by the stories of others…I continue to be helped by people (like you all) who reply to my posts – so if i in turn can help by being a bit vulnerable…. then this has got to be a good thing. Thanks for your ongoing support and encouragement to me.

Ann Maree – yes – the divorce argument is a good reminder. As for what do I want to say to my friend…. ?

I have drafted this out:

" Dear xxxx,

I appreciate that your letter to me was a hard one to write. Knowing you, I know that your motivation is out of concern and conviction.

I value our friendship – and I guess all I can say is that we will have to agree to disagree.

With love…

sarab xxxx

woooh – looking at it – this seems a bit harsh – what do you all reckon?

Thanks

Sarab xxx 🙂