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not out still confused 47

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Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
October 11, 2011, 18:59

Hi sarab


You said:


I guess I am just a bit nervous because everything is a bit new and raw in my mind – so I can’t foresee my emotional reaction.


I think it’s important to sit with your nervousness and listen to what it’s telling you. Honour that and slow down. I think I’m a pretty good advocate for others, and as such, I would suggest you focus on doing whatever nurtures you in this raw state, especially when you’re feeling so vulnerable.


You said:


as I have always in my mind been advocating for my sister and gay friends. It’s just a bit closer to home now – & I feel a bit more vulnerable. Does that make sense?


So maybe you feel motivated to advocate for others as you have done before? However, it’s more difficult to do when the issue is close to the bone and you’re feeling so vulnerable. You might want to give yourself permission to wait before you go full steam ahead advocating on this issue.


It’s one thing to consider both sides of an argument when you’re strong. It’s also another to accept these with your mind and be OK with them on a cognitive level. However, there’s more to you than your ability to process information in an objective way (an admirable trait which needs to be considered alongside your other needs). You’re a person with emotions in the early stages of trying to come to terms with your sexuality and faith.. This is a fragile process, involving lots of different parts of you at various stages of development. It seems that your mind wants to rush ahead because of your thirst for knowledge. However, the other parts of you may not be ready for such a presentation. Added to that, you make it sound as if the person giving the presentation may not understand what it’s like to be gay and grappling with such a huge life situation. Depending on his/her stance, this may add to your vulnerability. And remember, the presentation ends for the presenter when he stops talking, whereas it’s a real life issue for you that continues long after the talk.


I may be wrong of course since I don’t know you or the presenter. And only you can decide whether hearing that homosexuality is wrong will be encouraging or motivating. I personally don’t think a counterargument is useful if you end up feeling utterly discouraged. But then that’s only my opinion. I’d want to find out more about the presenter’s stance before I deciced whether to attend or not. And then I’d apply my mother’s rule of asking: Is this good for me? If the answer is Yes, go toward it. If not, walk away. And if unsure or doubtful, walk away.


As for questions to ask the presenter, what do you want to know?


Blessings,


Ann Maree



forestgrey
Chapter Leader
Joined in 2008
October 11, 2011, 20:44

Mmm, not sure that I’d want to get myself in a situation like that.


The presenter will probably be very well briefed on his/her particular interpretation of the Bible. Unless you are an expert in Hebrew and N.T. Greek, you might find yourself out of your depth. I certainly don’t get into debate with those sort of people. They have already made up their minds that they are right – usually without even seriously considering alternatives. And they often are talking from the head to the head – i.e., an intellectual argument alone … with no room for love and grace and what God’s Spirit and your spirit are saying to each other.


I’d be saying something like, “I hear what you are saying as your interpretation. But, I know some beautiful people who have a different perspective. I am trusting God to reveal the truth to me.”


We need to be a bit ‘thick-skinned’ with some of these people and not let them get to us. But, we need to remain gracious in our response to them.


Trust that helps.



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
October 11, 2011, 21:51

Hi forestgrey


Good points and well said.


There’s lots of ways to find both sides of the argument but are they accurate? I’d rather listen to a gracious person who was open to listening and learning than a so-called ‘expert’.


It’s easy to get caught up in argument or theoretical debate but much harder to live in a loving way. We often cling to our ideas but they mean nothing if we have no love. If the presenter is focused on loving others rather than propping up an argument, I think that’s a good sign. If not, I’d have to wonder what would be gained by attending…


Blessings,


Ann Maree



sarab
 
Joined in 2011
October 11, 2011, 22:20

Ann Maree said


[” It seems that your mind wants to rush ahead because of your thirst for knowledge. However, the other parts of you may not be ready for such a presentation” ]


I think you have captured me very well here. While I am aware of feeling a bit more vulnerable – I agree that “the other parts of me” – separate from my cognitive rational side, might find it a struggle.


Forest Grey I think you are right – I am not ready to get into a debate. I hadn’t really considered that advocating for my sister – which I did a lot of while I was at high school, (a long time ago) is quite another thing than trying in the state of flux I am in to make a place for myself. And yes, I would be out of my depth. As for whether or not I will avoid going at all – not yet sure. There is a part of me that does want to steel myself- kind of hear the worst from a distance – before I hear the worst (from family friends colleagues) up close and personal. I might be pre judging the speaker – although I doubt it.

Thanks, I will mull this over. (still trying the whole square bracket thing for quoting – will get there eventually) 🙂

Sarab



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
October 12, 2011, 12:08

Hi sarab


In regards to quoting, you don’t need to use punctuation marks. Just put the word quote inside the first square brackets and then /quote before your last bracket. Try that and see how you go.


I am glad I captured some of your personality accurately in my comments. I think you are wise to mull things over and not rush to these kinds of events. Regarding the need to steel yourself as a kind of preparation for those close to you who might be rejecting, I think it’s better to build up your supports for this purpose rather than punish yourself! Apart from that, if you still want to be exposed to the anti gay perspective, you don’t have to go to the trouble of going to an event. Just read some of the stories and articles here that include peoples’ exposure to homophobic arguments. You’ll see the devastating effects these have had on those in our community.


I hope that helps.


Blessings,


Ann Maree



sarab
 
Joined in 2011
October 12, 2011, 17:49

Thanks again Ann Maree,

My thinking about going to this talk may have seemed disrespectful to those who have shared their storieson this site – (& those who have not) – who have experienced first hand the impact of discrimination, hostility, counter arguments. This wasn’t my intention – & I apologise if it seems that way. I can well understand some people thinking – “why would she seek discrimination and hostility out – I live it every day!” So I am thinking on this.


Thanks,

Sarab



Mother Hen
 
Joined in 2011
October 12, 2011, 18:10

Hi Sarab,


The decision is always yours, you have to do what it right for you.


For me personally now that my son has come out to us I don’t think I could sit there and listen to someone say being Gay is wrong. It would seriously tick me off, I would either have to walk out or stand up and say something. And I know it would bother me for a long time afterwards. |(


If on the other hand they were up there speaking about how we should treat LGBT people with respect and love and that God loves them the way they are and they were there to change the churches thinking on this issue then hey I would be there with bells on cheering them on. :bigsmile:


I think I would be finding out what their agenda was first. 😉


God luck with it all.



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
October 12, 2011, 18:39

Hi sarab


I appreciate your reflection and sensitivity. And thank you for expressing the above comment.


Sadly, many of us have encountered abuse and exclusion at the hands of so-called, well meaning Christians. The latter are people who have been misinformed and yet cling doggedly to their teachings and beliefs. And what they often don’t see are the insidious outcomes to their preaching, such as increased mental health issues and suicide in the LGBTI community, especially for those trying to reconcile their faith and sexuality. It’s so tragic, not just for those in our community, but also for the Christians involved. If they only knew what they were doing, I would hope that many would be horrified and change their behaviours if not their beliefs.


I didn’t think you were intending to be insensitive but thanks for thinking how your stance could have been interpreted. I sense your urge to learn and be informed on all sides of an argument which is commendable. To that end, if you’re into bible study, you could do your own investigation into original languages and context rather than taking another’s interpretation as gospel. I think all Christians or those interested in biblical writings should ideally do that.


My caution around your attending the event you’ve mentioned is mainly protective. I guess I believe that life is difficult enough without us having to seek out pain. And at this early stage, when you’re doing so well in working through your sexuality and faith, I’d hate for you to come away feeling out of your depth or discouraged. Many of us have felt that way after attending those kinds of church presentations. And I know for myself when feeling vulnerable that I need to be particularly careful to avoid anything that’s even potentially harsh or painful. But then I’m very sensitive and maybe projecting that unnecessarily onto you. I also appreciate that everyone’s different and we each learn in various ways.


Anyway, I’m confident you know what you need to do and we’re here to support you whatever that is.


Don’t forget to check out our resource articles too. There’s some great ones that offer very objective perspectives on homosexuality and scriptures. Here’s the link to one I recently added to our resources. It’s written by our chaplain, Rev Rowland Croucher. http://www.freedom2b.org/topic/1727


Blessings,


Ann Maree



Chris
Administrator
Joined in 2009
October 12, 2011, 18:57

Not long ago a very old friend of mine made a post on his blog on Christianity and gays. It was poorly worded, pretty offensive, and really took me by surprise. It was some time later that I finally decided to comment on his blog post, and in the ensuing comments that followed, there was a turnaround of sorts. He apologised for the way he’d come across initially, and we engaged in a much more well thought-out debate. We never agreed on much but it was at least done on the level of intellect that I expected from the guy. What it took was removing someone from their pedestal and engaging them personally. I am now glad that anyone who reads his blog post will now see a discussion worth reading, rather than just the initial text.


I think that incident was a good example of how people can talk differently to different audiences, in different situations. When you are writing on your blog, or speaking out to an audience who you expect will mostly agree with you, you are going to use pretty different language than when you are engaging in a one-on-one discussion with someone who you might be offending. Media personalities are also often very different when off the air.


I would expect that this event you are thinking about going to is more likely to be presented in a way that speaks to an agreeable audience of many, rather than being sensitive to the affected few. If I was feeling vulnerable, I’d be thinking twice about going. If you are keen on finding out more about the anti-gay arguments that Christians use, I think there are some better options anyway.


There is a wealth of material online, ranging from the absurd to the well-constructed (but still, in my opinion, wrong). The good thing about such written material is that if you are feeling like you have had enough, you can stop at any time and come back to where you left off when you’re feeling up to it again. Same goes for online videos too. You’ll also find a lot more viewpoints out there on the world wide web than you will in an Anglican church hall.


At the end of the day though, only you know yourself (and the church, and the pastor) well enough to know if the benefits are likely to outweigh the risks.



Mother Hen
 
Joined in 2011
October 12, 2011, 19:26

You always put things so well Ann Marie. 🙂 You are a great asset to the forum, thanks. 🙂


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