not out still confused 47

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Joined in 2011
December 7, 2011, 07:39

Quote from sarab on December 6, 2011, 6:15 pm

I will read the book – yet I have an inner determination in me at the moment that says that it is a good and brave thing that I have been sorting through – that it's positive to accept my sexuality and damn it I don't want to enter a place of suppression again. I guess my dilemma is how to respectfully engage with my friend about my position.

Hey Sarab.. I like your statement here.. it is a good brave thing you have been doing… Hold onto that and yes… damn it… it isn't good to enter into the place of suppression again! And… yes, your friend will have a different opinion and is trying to help, but she isn't gay and won't 'get it'… I agree with the others… don't read the book. Ann Maree's options about how to respond are helpful.. or you may find another way as you think and pray about it.

You are good. God loves you just as you are. He/She has a place of greater freedom with the possibility of intimacy ahead of you… Hold onto these things – embracing our truth can only lead to good things in the end… it can just be messy in the process sometimes… Remember, the all embracing nature of God's love for you..

I have been reading Advent readings and the theme the past couple of days has been about Mary being 'highly favoured'… not because of anything she was or did, but because she was ready to receive God's gracious gift… may we all be like that.

Take care today.. and take courage…


Joined in 2005
December 7, 2011, 11:28

Hi Sarab,

how are you? I hope your well, I just wanted to share my own experiences with Liberty Christian Ministries and have to agree with Ann-Maree and Ben in that , you shouldn't get involved with LCM I'll go into my own experience with LCM shortly, I was just re-reading your post, you said Quote:To cut a long story short she has joined some dots and come up with a fairly accurate picture of where I am at. I have not at all been explicit about going to an affirming church – yet she has obviously figured out that the issue of same sex relationships is what I am working through

I can certainly relate to that (as Im sure many other here can as well) I mean, I have seen a few Christian Counsellors in the past (Exodus/LCM counsellors) and like you, so much of what they said hit the mark and I felt that they were describing my own life experiences. So much so, that I was led to tears on many occasions. I may be wrong, but I think a lot of these counsellors are trained to reinforce our personal experiences (if that makes sense) they seem to be trained in sharing stories, giving examples of and "evaluating" the very things that touch us emotionally, those things that seem to be totally relevant to our own experiences and play on our emotions and desires to better our lives and stop struggling with the issues in our lives that are tormenting us and crippling us, those things that are concerning us … I think its easy for us to hear or read something and associate it with our own experiences, sometimes our experiences are similar to many others who have struggled to accept or embrace our sexuality and faith. I did read the book "WHAT SOME OF YOU WERE" – by Christopher Keane (I think this is the book your talking about) but it was so long ago that I cant remember much of it lol what I do remember was saying to myself "that's me!" -"That's exactly how I feel" -"that exactly what I am going through" and to some degree it was and as I read the "testimonies" of how people "came out of homosexuality" and were "set free" I wanted that too. (I personally question how many of these people mentioned in the book really have "abandoned homosexuality" and "been set free from the bondage of homosexuality" let alone whether any of those experiences were actually true) Only God knows. I read those "testimonies" and thought, if that happened to them, then it can happen to me! I prayed over and over again to be set free from my unwanted homosexual desires. I would force myself to avoid having contact with "anything that was gay" or any other guy I felt attracted too and I forced myself to spend time with as many woman as possible. I even stopped wearing CK one (Calvin Klein fragrance, because a Christian once told me it was a "homosexual fragrance" lol. To some degree it seemed to be working, for a short time I believed that I was starting to change. Of course the moment I found myself being attracted to some guy in the street or was tempted to watch some gay movie or whatever, I immediately felt ashamed, unloved and so so sinful & a failure. I spoke to my Pastor, he made me undergo 3 exorcisms … I started going to a different church and that's when I was referred to LCM. I attended some of their meetings, read a lot of their books and literature, in short, the more I read, the more I felt guilty because it seemed that I wasn't living up to expectation, I wasn't obeying God and just not trying hard enough. Again, everything that was mentioned in the books and flyers, everything that I was being told, seemed to fit in with how I was feeling and what I was going through, and how I was brought up, distant father, over protective mother … that kind of stuff. And yes, some of that was true (to some degree) but that's not what caused me to be gay. The more I read, the more I attended meetings, the more I felt empowered initially, when I was able to "resist temptation" and get through 1 week (or a few days) without "falling into homosexual sin" but inevitably I did "fall into homosexual sin" I did find myself being attracted to someone on the street, someone I met somewhere … whatever, and then came the cycle of guilt, shame, self-hatred, the belief that God must hate me so much, that I was destined to eternity in hell. Then came the depression, the compulsive behaviour and the suicide attempts . I believed that I wasn't a good Christian and that I must be holding on to homosexual sin even if I didn't know it! Eventually, what stared out as being a supportive Christian environment, became a very negative and unsupported environment, the very people who were suppose to help me and help me to become "set free from homosexual sin" or "the demon of homosexuality" were the same people who were telling me that I was an abomination, that God hated my sin and that I was refusing to let go of my sinful lifestyle and my immoral ways. I had "given into Satan" and needed to repent or I will be "cast into the pit of hell for eternity"

Liberty Christian Ministries did more harm then good. When they had given up on me because I refused to stand firm and not give into Satan.

They sent me to Hillsong Church to undergo their living waters program. Supposedly they had "more experience in dealing with these things" they had more resources and they would "without a doubt, set me free" and give me the skills to" live the life God intended for me" but only if I "genuinely wanted to change and turn from my sinful and wicked lifestyle" What lifestyle? I was a confused young person dealing with and trying to understand my sexuality, I was not involved in a lifestyle. I had no gay friends at that stage. And never set foot in a gay bar. Oh, but I did were CK One Men's fragrance, so must be not holding onto sin or something.

Perhaps, your experience, if you get involved with LCM would be different, but I doubt it. All I can say is tread lightly.


Joined in 2005
December 7, 2011, 11:29

Oh, so sorry, I didn't realise I had written so much. Sorry, I know that sometimes long posts can be annoying 🙁

Joined in 2011
December 7, 2011, 21:15

Thank you so much to Hillsben, Ann Maree, Ammi, Princess Fiona and Brunski for your care and cautions about “Liberty Ministries”.

I did heed your warnings. I did however, read the book – yet did so with a sense of detachment and caution. Yes – the book was “What some of you were” ( a load of twaddle if you ask me!).

I have to say, if it wasn’t for the fact that the stories in the book were about real people and real pain – the naivety and stupidity of some of the views expressed was almost laughable.


I have in no way been suckered in by “Liberty ministries”.

I have never thought that one should be “healed from homosexuality” – I never thought this before coming out to myself – and I certainly don’t think that now.

The language of the book was shaming and pejorative. The editor of the book should himself be ashamed.

I knew I was in an OK space to read the book. I did so as I felt I had an obligation to my friend who sent it to me. My challenge now is how to respectfully tell her what I thought of it.

I am actually – (believe it or not) in a space where I can say that I am actually Ok with being gay. (Amazing to come to that in a short space of time… although it’s been a work in progress for some years). My challenge is how to integrate that with faith. I think though my new church will help with this. My challenge is also how to deal with the many conservative Christian friends who will continue to want to see me “healed” or to “resist temptation”.

Oh and thank you to Brunski for sharing more of your story. I can’t believe the comment about the CK fragrance – I actually laughed at the ignorance behind that comment from the guy who said it was a "homosexual fragrance" – 🙂 although of course when one ponders this it is also so terribly painful. I am so sorry to read of all you have been through – and I thank you for your continued warmth and encouragement. It is so very much appreciated. When I read about what you when through with "Liberty" – and the stories of others in the book I have just finished – it seems very heavy on "works" and very short on God's amazing grace.

Ammi – thanks for the reminder about God’s grace…. you are a wonderful encouragement too – as is Ann Maree and all who share their story and journey on this site.

Many thanks all.

Sarab xx

Princess _Fiona
Joined in 2011
December 8, 2011, 04:00

Hi sarab

WOW!!!!!! Way to go sarab, I can see by your postings that you are indeed a wonderful friend to have. The fact that you already are thinking on how to respectfully give her feedback on the book, if she asks, shows your caring nature. Of course this is a tough one, as your friend clearly has her own views on sexuality. From my own previous experience with how to handle these type of conversations, perhaps you could say something along these lines (of course you know your friend best and I'm sure God will help you with the right words regarding this upcoming conversation). I did find however that short and sweet was the way to go.

"Thank you (name) for the book that you sent me, I know it was sent with love and concern. I did take the time to read the book. I don't want to hurt you in anyway, or get into a debate/argument over this. I just simply want to respectfully say that the view taken in this book isnt my view and that it doesnt reflect my journey with God. Its great that friends can have different opinions and still loving remain friends and I'm hoping this is the case with us".

Of course sarab, you don't even have to say that much. You could simply choose to thank her for the book, acknowledge her friendship and choose not to comment on it. Its totally up to you in how you approach this and I know God will give you wisdom when you ask.

Its fantastic that you are now in a space where you can say that you are actually Ok with being gay, well done sarab for working so hard and not giving up. I'm so happy for you that you have a church now where you know they will lovingly help you with your journey (faith/sexuality) with God. Thats what being in the body of christ is meant to be like and its exciting to hear there are churches actively working like this. My hope for you is that you will make new friends in Christ at this church (I'm sure thats already started to happen). Of course I also hope that your currently Christian friends with different views continue to show you love and friendship.

Just a final note to Brunski (a hug coming your way) I too was moved and saddened to read what you went through. Thank you for taking the time sharing your journey. Its a shame that there are still today, so many places around that hold onto these ex-gay views. Thankfully you have come out the other end of all of this, as you know many don't. 🙁

Thanks again sarab for sharing your journey on here, its truely inspiring to read how far you have come. It spurs me on to keep going with working on my own faith/sexuality.


Mother Hen
Joined in 2011
December 8, 2011, 10:39

Hi Sarab,

Throughout your postings you have mention several times that you want to be open and honest with your friends. Can I suggest that is exactly what you do with the friend who gave you the book. This can still be done in a respectful way that will hopefully generate some thought provoking conversation for your friend. By giving you the book she has opened the door for discussion. It's on opportunity for you to be honest with her about your sexuality instead of hinting and dodging the issue. It's an opportunity for you to tell her that you are happy being gay, happy with who you are and to possible change or at least open her mind to the fact that being gay is ok with God.

As always I know you will be sensitive to your friend and not wish to upset the balance in your friendship, you respect and cherish the friendships you do have. True friendship is not one way though, friends also need to respect and accept you, your views and opinions, even if they differ from theirs. This is also an opportunity for you to tell her what you need from her as a friend.

God bless

Joined in 2011
December 8, 2011, 17:29

We need a 'like' button…. Like, Like… what Mother Hen said…

Trust your day has been okay today…


Joined in 2011
December 8, 2011, 18:42

I agree with Ammi –

I really liked what Mother Hen had to say.

Thanks so much Mother Hen – I really appreciate your time, care and thoughtfulness in responding.

As I read what you wrote I thought "good call" :). Yes you are right – I do value honesty in my friendships and what I have found difficult and anxiety provoking in recent months is the withholding of information – kind of like deceit my omission.

You are right too – that friendships are a two way street – and I liked what you said about it being an opportunity for me to tell her what I need in return from her as a friend. Yes. That is very powerful and helpful.

I wrote in my previous post that I am really in myself feeling more and more OK with my sexuality. It is however one thing to be OK myself and yet another thing to share with someone I know has very divergent views. However, a good friendship should be able to withstand these differences.

I will also give some consideration as to whether I write to her or phone her (we live in different parts of the State).

Thanks to Princess Fiona for your 4AM (!!!) words of encouragement 🙂

Thanks also to Ammi – hope all OK with you too :).


Princess _Fiona
Joined in 2011
December 9, 2011, 03:26

Hi sarab

Its a 3am comment this time (I smiled at your referance to 4am), due to ill health I don't sleep so well usually 2 – 3 hours max at a time, so I do alot of my research and pondering during the wee small hours. Its a good thing to focus on something other than how I am feeling physically. 🙂

I know I've said it a few times in my postings to you, but WOW, I'm so encouraged and blown away with how you are doing and tackling issues. You truely have grown so much, its plain to see, just from your postings. I must say I can truely see a wonderful butterfly emerging. 🙂

So the LORD spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. And he would return to the camp, but his servant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, did not depart from the tabernacle. Exodus 33:11

Here's a poem you may like 🙂 (sorry its so long, as a condition of using it I had to copy it how it is written)


We grow closer to each other

When we’re closer to the Lord

The common faith that we share

Binds our hearts in one accord

For friendships last a life time

When built on Jesus Christ

Throughout each different season

We find we are in life

Friends are there through times of grief

And times when hope is gone

Always there with encouragement

So we can carry on

So thank the Lord for giving you

A true and faithful friend

To laugh with you, and cry with you

On whom you can depend

For friends will stay no matter what

Giving you support

And together your hearts truly unite

With the love of the Lord

© By M.S.Lowndes


Joined in 2011
December 9, 2011, 22:43

Thanks Princess Fiona for sharing this beautiful poem and for your encouragement.

I will be working on composing a letter to my friend this weekend. BTW – just came out to a Christian friend tonight – was a safe space and she is very broad minded. Another tiny step for me – amazing.

Sarab xx

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