In relation to the legalization of homosexual marriage I would argue that homo-erotic behaviours are condemned biblically (this is obviously not the opinion of everyone) so the celibacy thing remains. Notably, homosexual marriages have never been legalized across time and culture until very recently.

In terms of the definition of ‘marriage’ changing and the ways in which this commitment is enacted you have an excellent point Maggie. However it does not detract from my argument. ‘Marriage’ as most married people will tell you is not about the ceremony. It is about the life-long commitment made to another person and the recognition of that commitment by society at large. Whether that commitment is crystallized within and western marriage ceremony or whether there are other ways of enacting it, the meaning remains the same. This is the argument used by many homosexual people who ‘marry’ during commitment ceremonies. Though as stated previously I don’t believe that a homosexual couple who commit to one another have the same rights as a married, heterosexual couple (in terms of erotic behaviours) because homo-erotic behavior is condemned biblically.

As far as I know, some native tribes approved of same sex marriage and also I think in Roman culture it was recognised but in saying that Roman culture approved of many things, some very strange and bizarre stuff I wont even mention.

Enthusiastic? Hmm…that’s not a word used to describe me often. I tend to be incredibly lazy… 😀

I’m afraid I have to disagree with you on several points, Kit. First of all, your contention that only technology has changed through the generations. Of course, I can’t speak from personal experience of older generations, but I think there have been more than just a few developments in the last decades. 🙂

On a more serious note: I think that sex is something that needs to be saved for marriage. Putting aside all the relevant Biblical verses that Sandy mentioned for a second, I think it stands to reason that as the most profound expression of intimacy conceivable, sex simply isn’t something that deserves such a blasé, carefree attitude that dictates it can be given without considerable commitment.

I do agree very much with your statement about God not denying forgiveness to those guilty of sexual sins – indeed, as CS Lewis once claimed, I believe sexual sins to be among the least severe sins – however, as Sandy pointed out, if you need forgiveness for it, it has to be a sin in the first place. Certainly, it is perfectly acceptable to make mistakes – if we didn’t we’d be God Himself – but I also know firsthand how a single slip-up can snowball into a cataclysmic disaster. My 14-month separation from God was the direct result of failing to pray one night, which led to decreased desire to pray the next night, and the next, and so forth until I was completely out of touch with God. Now I must guard my intentions very carefully, and must remember to pray every night so the same thing doesn’t happen again. Mistakes are only worthwhile if you learn from them, and I have a feeling that caving in to sexual desire is one of those things that can cause your life to spiral out of control if you do not immediately learn from it.

Regarding Matthew 5:28, I find that it does the exact opposite to the thing you described – rather than nullifying adultery by equating it to lust, I believe the intention of the passage was to raise lust to the level of adultery. Lust, I think, does not refer to mere sexual attraction, and as such cannot be said to be something people invariably do naturally, and we must have some level of control over it. Therefore, if we are expected not to lust, then we are also expected not to engage in extra-marital sex.

Besides these arguments, there’s also the matter of verses prohibiting fornication – such as the ones mentioned previously.

[sharp exhale]…that’s all, I think… 😉 I’m afraid it comes off as a little preachy, so I apologise for that; and it certainly isn’t my best piece of work (it’s a bit disjointed) so sorry for that as well.

On the topic of C. S. Lewis he was also noted for saying “There is no getting away from it: the old Christian rule is, either marriage with compete faithfulness to your partner, or else total abstinence” – Mere Christianity p. 90

Just jumping back to your comment Sandy on Thursday night, you are always welcome to respond.

You say: “I won’t say much except to clarify that I too agree that Jesus forgives all sin when we ask Him, no one is condemned to hell for practising pre-marital sex. However this does not negate the fact that premarital sex is sin, if it wasn’t we wouldn’t need forgiveness in the first place.”

I would be interested though in how the notion of how pre-marital sex fits with a website dedicated to affirming gay and lesbian people who live in a country that has no legal avenue of marriage available to us? By your definition is it so black and white that we are either celibates or sinners?

You also don’t mention post-marital sex? Not such an issue for a younger reader but there are many GLBTIQ people who are post-marriage also. Is post-marital sex a sin? Not necessarily according to Spong and Christian groups that counsel people on recovery from divorce.

I personally have had my own journey in moving from a straight world to a gay world, from inclusion in the church to exclusion, from marriage to being single, from a large friend base to a small one, from being accepted to experiencing homophobia, from serving people in the general community to serving people who are living and dying with HIV/AIDS, from biblical certainty to biblical appreciation.

However, I’ve persevered with expressing my controversial, if inarticulate, views because I care about the rift between God and GLBTIQ people that Fred Nile and others have so callously caused. I don’t think God delights in sex addiction, for example, but I believe he loves and forgives the sex addict, longing to bring that person to a more meaningful state of existence.

They’re my thoughts.

Kit