Hi Sarab

I just thought I'd sign on for a little before I go to bed (hopefully to get more sleep than normal, am I'm looking like a walking zombie these days lol) I'm so glad I did sign on, you have blessed me with sharing what your currently doing and in suggesting I try something similiar. Thank you for opening up more and taking the time to share your journey with me. 🙂

You said, It seems like you have done a bit of running in the past – so maybe the idea of a gentle walk or simple stroll towards God may be helpful. It's not a huge run or leap towards him/her or towards faith – just a gentle quiet walk. I think this seems to place less expectations on ourselves – kind of like the image of "bite sized pieces" – does that make sense?

When I first read this, my first thought was, "no I just can't do that right now, not without first working out bibical truths and having a revelation of where God stands on who I am", but when I got to this part of the paragraph I was challenaged by your words. I also realised that a "gentle quiet walk" is certainly something I can do and also something I am probably starting to do anyhow. I'm such a visual person and this picture was most helpful and made alot of sense,so thank you sarab.

You said, Another thing I have just started saying to myself over the last day or so is "created in the image of God" – how about that! Yes you Princess Fiona – created in the image of God. Something pretty special to meditate on.

Okay gives into any resistance and commits to meditating (reflecting) on the above. 🙂 (how can I not, when you put it so wonderfully)

You also said, Oh – and another word I find helpful is "integrating" – I am learning to integrate my past – be it my previous understandings of faith, of God, be it (in my case) unhelpful views about sexuality – I am learning to integrate these – with my present.

I read this a few times and reflected on what was this saying to me. The me from my past seems like looking at a stranger, I changed so much, I'm not sure that me from the past, fits with me now in the present. I will spend some time thinking a little more on this one. As I do realise that I wouldnt be the me of the present without having to go through the struggles of the past, so that part rings true to me.

Am now heading off to bed soon, thinking of your wise words and am happy that I'm ending a difficult day on a good note, thanks to you sarab.

Sending HUGS your way

Quote from avennbrown on December 12, 2011, 11:50 pm

it would probably good to mention is case people don't realise…….these three journeys are not taken at the same pace or time. In fact some you have to shut down for a time in order to do the other.

The only way I could survive mentally and emotionally was to put my christian belief system on hold for 6 years.

More details about this in my next book.

Hi Anthony

Thank you again for your input, your past experience as I said is so valuable to me as I can relate to alot of things, as can alot of people with your journey. I too can relate to what your said in put off a certain part in order to survive mentally and emotionally. It amazing how the human body knows, just how much stress it can take at anyone time. Although I have been happy since "coming out", without saying to much (which may identify who I am to others, in the off chance they are reading) I will simply add I had enough major stressors happening during this period to deal with outside of my sexuality & faith issues, that I couldnt just shut down.

In my mind I have separated the the 3 stages as you have so wonderfully put it, so thank you for your wisdom on this. I think for me as I indicated to sarab, to totally work out my Christian belief system (which is essentially so fundamentally important to me), my relationship with the Divine is somewhat put on hold to an extent. Some may find it hard to understand how you don't simply return to God's arms and presence and remain there. Perhaps its may be easier for others to understand it this way as I speak of myself, "I simply can not have a intimate relationship with someone without knowing and understand who they are first". To do that would mean a shallow, superficial relationship, which isnt what I'm wanting at all.

So sarab's picture of bite size pieces, is much more doable, I can see my self making baby steps, while I work on reconiling my Christian belief system. Who knows how long this will take, I think I'm travelling well right now, thanks to the encouragement from this site. I'm hoping that God will understand my reasons for this as He knows me and His grace will cover me during this time, after all He knows my heart.

Hugs

P.S Anthony your tackling another book? Wow good on you, I'm sure a part 2 of your journey will inspire many.

Are you a sucker for punishment (am joking of course, giggles).

Hey Princess Fiona…

I love sarab's image of a gentle walk towards God too… You know, one of the most useful things I learned while studying 4 years of theology is the following…

In answer to the question… how correct does someone's theology need to be – in order to 'get into the kingdom'?

The bleeding woman in Luke… just touched the hem of Jesus' garment, and she was healed… the hem of the garment of the One who saves, is enough… because, you see, we are not saved by our theology, but by our relationship… which starts with that steadfast love of the Divine for you, made in Her image, as sarab says. I guess what I'm trying to say is… that there is no hurry to read the theological arguments about why being gay and Christian are okay… maybe it is okay to trust the stories that you have read here for now… that it is…

A gentle walk towards the Divine and meditation on Her love for you – may bring you a measure of peace and release from the terror and fear, and I suspect, a whole new understanding of who this God is for you… then maybe you will be in a place where the theology would be helpful…

I hope that helps…

ammi

Quote from Princess _Fiona on December 13, 2011, 4:03 am

Hi Anthony

Forgot to say I totally loved this.

Quote from avennbrown on December 12, 2011, 5:20 pm

'Its better to live one day on this planet being true to yourself than an entire lifetime which is a lie."

you did it

Hi Princes Fiona,

I’m glad you came back and clarified this point

Quote from Princess _Fiona on December 13, 2011, 10:35 am Sure for some reading others stories it might be enough, but for me its not. There stories are inspiring and encouraging to me and touch my heart. They spur me on to continue my search for answers. I know for me, who has suffered at the hands of the church for being who I am, who believed what they said in there teachings, its important to come to my own understanding and revelation. Sure as I said before I may not get all my answers, but to arrive with a peace of mind, that I am accepted for who I am is so important. For how can I have a intimate relationship with anyone who I believe detests what I do sexually.

I had thought that was what was important to you and that is why I gave you the link to my son’s bible study. Then with all of the other comments I was concerned that giving the link was not such a good idea.

Everyone is different; you have to do what is important for you and what you need.

My view from my own personal experience with church, is when it comes to scripture you can pretty well make it say what you want it to say when it’s taken out of context, pulling out one verse to make the speakers point, or not setting the scripture in the times it was written. And how many things that were written were only applicable for that time.

I understand the hurt you are feeling from the church, I was let down terrible and deeply hurt by the church as well, to the point I struggle to walk in the doors of one. (won’t go into the why’s). Just thinking about the so called friends and the hurt I suffered with the church still brings me pain. I think the reason is we/I believed everything they said it all sounds so convincing and when you come into the church at a young age particularly you don’t know any different. Even though the bible is there for us to read and then interpret ourselves we still read it as someone else told us it means. They have gone to Bible College, they are well versed in the scriptures, they have got the Strong’s book out, they have looked up all the Greek meanings etc etc. We think they know more than we do so we swallow it whole. It’s not until something comes along that really really shakes up our beliefs that we stop and for the first time really look at the scriptures. I belonged to a church for over 15yrs where we weren’t even allowed to read another book that talked about the bible, other than the bible. After all it might lead us off the narrow path.

At the time I felt so terrible let down and dissolution with the church, I remember feeling like I was tipped upside down and all my beliefs that I had, all my beliefs about the church, God and Jesus were all shaken out and fell on the ground. I then had to work out what was true for me and what wasn’t. What was God really saying. I learnt it is a lot simpler to be a Christian than the church makes out. I learnt that there is a big difference between the church and God. Before I saw them as one, now I see them as two. I believe in God but not in the current system of the church. I believe you can be a Christian and not go to church. It’s our belief in God and Jesus that makes us a Christian not how many times we go to Church. In saying that I do believe fellowshipping with likeminded people is important.

As I said, I read my son’s personal bible study, and for the first time someone else had another interpretation of the scriptures that I hadn’t heard before. Whether people agree with what he said or not doesn’t really matter. I think the main point to get out of it is, things aren’t as black and white as the church would have us believe. There are other plausible interpretations of the scriptures that are different than what the church use to condemn LGBT people.

For me I don’t get into or intend to get into any scriptural debate what a verse is really saying or not on the LGBT issue. For me the main point I come back to is, if God is the God the church say he is who can heal, who can change lives, changes heart, answers pray, does miracles, cares about our lives, the all-knowing powerful God. Then why doesn’t he change and answer the prayers of LGBT people who don’t want to be the way there are. E.g. my son is Gay, if God isn’t happy with that, if it’s such a sin against God, then why didn’t he answer the prayers and cries of a young man that loves and believes in God. I’ve said that to family members and they just said well that’s true. Some may throw up the well he is influenced or possessed by the devil etc, well is God more powerful than the devil or what.

Reading the stories on this site of so many people who are trying to reconcile their faith with what the church has said the scriptures say on being LGBT. All the struggles they have been through, their own heart ache at trying to be what the church says they should be. Denying who they are, their cries and prayers to God to change them not being answered. How can so many God loving people all be wrong? They all convince me that God is happy with the way people are, the way they were born, it's people who have the issues about other's being different and not fitting it with what society says is normal and acceptable.

I think we can all agree the church has got many issues wrong in the past. They have changed their views and minds on what they believed the scriptures to say on different issue, I believe it is also the case on homosexuality. I’m not afraid to say the church has got it wrong.

As you mentioned it’s important to you for you to come to own understanding and revelation on the issue. You have to do what is right for you and in the timing that is right for you. Doesn’t matter how long it takes or even if you get to that place, God still loves you, take nice baby steps.

Sorry I’ve rambled on.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.