not out still confused 47

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Ann Maree
Joined in 2008
October 12, 2011, 21:20

Thanks Mother Hen. That’s very kind. 🙂

I love being part of this community and engaging in the ways we do. I’m grateful for the support that was given to me and am only too glad to give back. I very much enjoy your input and support as well as the contributions of many others who give in various ways here.

Group hug! 🙂


Ann Maree

Ann Maree
Joined in 2008
October 12, 2011, 21:36

Hi Chris

I would expect that this event you are thinking about going to is more likely to be presented in a way that speaks to an agreeable audience of many, rather than being sensitive to the affected few. If I was feeling vulnerable, I’d be thinking twice about going. If you are keen on finding out more about the anti-gay arguments that Christians use, I think there are some better options anyway.

There is a wealth of material online, ranging from the absurd to the well-constructed (but still, in my opinion, wrong). The good thing about such written material is that if you are feeling like you have had enough, you can stop at any time and come back to where you left off when you’re feeling up to it again. Same goes for online videos too. You’ll also find a lot more viewpoints out there on the world wide web than you will in an Anglican church hall.

At the end of the day though, only you know yourself (and the church, and the pastor) well enough to know if the benefits are likely to outweigh the risks.

Thanks for your input here, Chris.

Yes, sometimes those presenters are pitching their talk to the converted rather than those who are struggling. And as for this particular presenter, sarab seems to think that might be the case too… I’m skeptical about the presenter’s motives which may be underestimating him. Afterall, I don’t know the person or his agenda so hard to say either way. As Mother Hen said, I’d be wanting to find that out before I decided to attend.

And I agree that online searches can be useful, although as with any material, it’s always good to check the sources, cross reference and not believe everything we read/hear. And being able to walk away from the screen or stop reading is important because not all information is beneficial or helpful. It’s perhaps harder to walk out of a presentation than it is to walk away from the computer.

I trust this discussion thread is helpful for you, sarab. 🙂


Ann Maree

Joined in 2011
October 12, 2011, 21:49

Thanks to Ann Maree (again) and thanks to Chris.

I think your point about whether or not a speaker in a public forum is likely to be sensitive to the affected few – is a good one. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Ann Maree – I have read some of Rowland’s stuff before – & have read his article before – I am yet to follow through on his links and suggested readings though. I think Rowland’s blog was one of the ways I actually found freedom 2 be. 🙂 It has also been through links and references on some of his blogs that I have found the church I think I will move to. Reading articles by Christians who seem to practice and preach love – rather than judgement and who affirm people from GLBT backgrounds has played an major contributory part in me actually coming out to myself and beginning to believe that I could ever partner at all. This is such a huge blessing – and for once I feel a sense of optimism about a future with another – rather than pushing any sense of hope into a tiny corner.

Thanks also Ann Maree for being “protective”.

I have to say – I am pretty much on my own in all of this at the moment. While my best friend has worn a lot of my angst and reflections – that’s it. So I am enormously grateful for the community here and the way in which people take time to thoughtfully repsond.

I thought I would share too – that a friend of a few years actually came out to me this week – – Well! what a strange old time this is. I actually in return shared some of my own current confusion with her – so it was quite a step I think for both of us. Dare I think that this could have been the graciousness of the Lord?


with much love and gratitude,

Sarab xx

Joined in 2011
October 13, 2011, 19:03

Thank you again sarahb, and all of you who have contributed to this thread. Thank you sarah for your honesty in your struggle, for your integrity and for your courage… (thanks too for the note on my thread the other day). Being ‘not out’ myself – and still very confused… I know that when I talk to people of faith, who have strong anti LGBT beliefs – I come away feeling rejected, more confused, and hurt… I am a bible student and teacher… I know the various interpretations that are possible for the ‘problem texts’ – but I still get confused… As someone else has said on another thread… ‘am I making it all up – just to help me feel more comfortable….?’

I guess what I would add to this thread just now – is what the others have said… if this presentation is an ‘anti-homosexual’ presentation to a group of people who will mostly be of that persuasion – it may not be the best context for you to use your previous advocacy role, when your insides are struggling and confused, about your own sexual orientation… there may come a time for that down the track… (although, personally – I think, the taking people out for coffee and sharing stories is a much more effective means to help people see a different perspective, rather than a debate in a public meeting….)….

I want to wish you well, as you continue this journey with its many painful forward and backward steps – and I would wish for you – to find a measure of peace about things for yourself….. (and hey…. a partner!!! sometime! to share your heart with and to laugh and enjoy life together!)

Take care…


Joined in 2011
October 13, 2011, 21:32

Hi Ann Maree and all,

I just had a listen to the speaker I was thinking of going to – he had a talk on women and head coverings on line (among other talks – I chose this one as I felt it could be similarly “controversial”).

Ann Maree had suggested it may be worth looking into the speaker a little further to see where he might be coming from.

He was talking about looking at the cultural context when we read scripture- He said “Biblical Principles always carry across to the current context but not all of cultural context will carry across to the current day as culture changes”

I thought this might have been the lens through which he would discuss same sex relationships. However, he very quickly went on to say that we must be careful not to apply this idea to anything in the scriptures we dont like. He even used homosexuality as his argument around this. He said that only if we discovered that in Greek culture that all same sex relationships were predatory and violent and only if the New testament mentioned violent abuses within same sex relations would we possibly have a basis on which to argue that the Bible was only speaking to abuses within sexual relationships and not to the type of loving same sex partnerships we see today – he said though he did not think this was the case & then went on to say he would discuss it further in his talk this weekend.

Hmmm – I am not a Bible scholar – nor a a Greek history scholar so perhaps on the strength of the snippets I heard on line tonight it may do my head in a bit to go along to hear him speak. I may just wait until it is put up on line (as all his talks are) and listen to it that way.

I guess my preliminary take on this is that it could be argued that while while the Bible may not specifically mention violence and abuses within same sex relations, nor does it specifically talk to or about loving monogomous same sex relationships… maybe there is an argument for the application of cultural diffrences – just as with head coverings?


Thanks Ammi too for your feedback – appreciated.


Ann Maree
Joined in 2008
October 13, 2011, 22:35

Hi sarab

I’m thinking his argument is weak and unclear. And I’m still not sure what his agenda is although it hints at being anti- gay. It makes me suspicious that he doesn’t clearly state his beliefs. I have more respect when people come right out and make their position clear even if I don’t agree.

He said that only if we discovered that in Greek culture that all same sex relationships were predatory and violent and only if the New testament mentioned violent abuses within same sex relations would we possibly have a basis on which to argue that the Bible was only speaking to abuses within sexual relationships and not to the type of loving same sex partnerships we see today – he said though he did not think this was the case & then went on to say he would discuss it further in his talk this weekend.

It sounds as if he’s trying to counter the pro gay argument that the negative passages linked with homosexuality are really about abuse rather than homosexuality. I certainly don’t have definitive answers either way and there’s much we’ll never know about intended biblical meanings. So when in doubt, I do my own study. I also go with the idea that God is love and anything that is love is of God and therefore not wrong.

The bible doesn’t say a lot about many things, such as modern technologies, and yet they exist and are good when used well. So the lack of mention in scripture doesn’t mean we suddenly should discount the use of computers and their benefits in modern life. I think the same can be applied with same sex relationships. They exist and there are loving partnerships that are good. I mean how can love be wrong?

I’m interested to know others’ thoughts.


Ann Maree

Joined in 2011
October 15, 2011, 18:28

Hi all,

I have decided not to attend tomorrow evening’s talk. I thought i was a bit stronger than I am. Thought I could compartmentalise my rational thinking self from my own personal self. I can’t do this.

I went to Bible study group for the first time last night since coming out to myself. I had such a churning sense of uncertainty and anxiety as I drove there. This “pent up” feeling has been building over the last week. I don’t think it is solely related to attending the Bible study – i think it is just a wave of everything that has been going on in my mind.

My stomach churns a lot lately.

It is very hard to sit with what feels like a revelation without being able to speak of it to anyone. Although I am fairly private about quite personal things – I am in my workplace and amongst friends generally a sharer of information. It’s hard to manage what feels like a duplicity. I have to hand it to my sister and all those I know who can’t for one reason or another “be out” in their workplace or with others. I don’t think I have actually fully appreciated how exhausting that must be for her – and for other friends.

I have been quite impatient and uncharacteristically short with people too. I think I am more anxious than I knew.

I have found reading the stories of others on the forum – along with the responses just so helpful. I have had a few wobbles over the last day or so – EG Q will God be disappointed that I didn’t remain stronger for longer? That is, I have been without a partner or intimacy for so long…. does He want me to just continue like this? Hmmm that feels so tough.

Am I letting people down and being a bad role model for those in my current church?

These types of thoughts and more trouble me a bit. Not the time to go to a potentially confronting talk tomorrow night.

Ann Maree et al – I think you were spot on! 🙂

That’s the latest from me.


Ann Maree
Joined in 2008
October 15, 2011, 18:45

Hi sarab

That sounds like a wise decision on your part. 🙂

It’s good that you are listening to yourself and taking those cues. Glad also that our comments and stories have been helpful.


Ann Maree

Mother Hen
Joined in 2011
October 15, 2011, 20:24

Hi Sarab,

Sounds like a wise decision you have listened to your body and the way it was feeling. Our bodies give us cues for things but often we ignore them. You have also listened to the advice and suggestions of others and mulled them over but still done what you thought was best for yourself.

You are doing really well. I don’t see you questioning or having “a few wobbles”, as you call it, a negative thing. It shows you are really thinking about your situation and working out what is best for you. Making sure you know within yourself what is right for you is never wrong. It takes as long as it takes and at times may mean 1 step forward and 1 or 2 steps back. That is ok, much better to be like that than blindly go for it.

God Bless.

Joined in 2011
October 18, 2011, 21:39

Thanks Mother hen for your encouragement the other day too – I think i am on a one step forward – two steps back journey.

One of the things I have been tossing over in my mind is the issue of surrender.

I know that as a Christian – I should surrender all to God. I believe that leading a life of faith is a continual journey of surrender. I battle at the moment with this. I have had my whole life with no partner – no intimacy – no nothing. And now I finally have the courage to deal with it – you know what? I do not want to surrender my current thinking to God.

I have this sense that i should be saying to God – if it’s your will then I give this desire to partner with a woman to you. If your will – take this desire away.

But – I don’t want to say that.

I feel like I have come so far (and my counsellor would attest to that) – i just find it difficult to differentiate between surrendering to God and repressing or suppressing my true feelings. I guess what I mean by that is that is that it seems like saying to God that I give my feelings to him might well equate with denial or giving up any hope of partenring.

In some ways – I could just go back into my own life of denial, separating myself from the world of connection and relationship. After all, I have proved I am very efficient at this. But there is a huge part of me that says -“No!” – if you want your life to be different – you need to give room to your real feelings. Part of me says – surely I need to give myself a chance to find love, intimacy and connection.

Not sure if this makes sense. All I know is that I have a mental image of a dark corner that I am not giving to the Lord. I am hanging on to it and that feels wrong.

would appreciate any thoughts and prayers.


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