Hi Shane

Thank you for being interested in my story.

It’s not that I don’t see the good in churches. For instance, I still speak well of the church that wouldn’t allow me to be openly gay. Why? Well because apart from that issue, they do a lot of practical work for the local community, and from what I recall they seem to have people in ministry that love what they do and there seems to be the right fit in terms of appropriately using people for their gifting. I liked that all the different parts of the body had their important role to play and did it really well and with true joy. And most importantly some of my loveliest and kindest clients go there and have been blessed by that and make a difference by their being there. And I would never want to take away from their blessing, support network and sense of safe community.

There are degrees of hurt and abuse, and I’ve found that recovery from spiritual abuse is a complex process. I mean, I agree, we all make mistakes, and as you say if there’s room for love, dialogue, humility and openness, we can move forward, even if it takes a while. In the absence of those things however, it’s more difficult but not impossible. I still have a strong physical, emotional and spiritual response, like a post traumatic stress thing, at the thought of going to a pentecostal church, let alone actually being there. My experiences affected me more deeply and on many levels, moreso than I thought, and so I need to be patient with myself, seeing the healing as a gradual unfolding. It’s not that I want to hold onto pain, it’s just there.

And yes, if we can learn about abusive situations and have warning systems in place that alert us when we start going down that route, what we and others went through, can definitely be avoided.

Are you comfortable sharing what happened at your last church?

Ann Maree

Hi Tony

Yes I can see that it will be gracious and very patient GLBTIQ people who can come alongside church leaders and help them progress. Making demands in anything, especially during a process of change, tends to only make others more resistant.

I hope though that there is still room to discuss struggles and frustrations here in this forum without fear of others saying that we are being negative. My aim is to provide a balanced view as much as possible in the knowledge, that when I fall short in this (as I do from time to time), others are patient. The last thing I want is to be silenced on issues that need strong words. I agree though that there is a time and place and audience for this.

Ann Maree

yep…..i was just making the comment about demands as I’ve had several people here and overseas email me……with the words…..yes great message but whats his stand on gay marriage……it annoyed me. Like they were missing the whole point….or possibly trying to find some thing so they don’t have to believe its true…..because it is true they will have to let go of the stuff they’ve been holding on to for years…..and its been so long its become a part of there being and identity.

this is your space and many others to disuss your struggles and frustrations.

Freedom 2 b[e]….is a space for all of us to be open, honest…show respect…and where there is no judgment and no agenda.

We have people come into our forums and meetings with lots of stuff….being able to finally find others to talk to about it has helped them enormously.

Thanks Orfeo regarding your info on the gay stats. I was told 10% of people when living in the UK which may have pertained to that population only. But then I don’t know why they’d have more gay people than Australia. Do you know when the Sex in Ausralia study was carried out? I just want to be sure, and one study may not be enough to base a figure on, especially if it was 20 years ago.

I don’t remember when it was carried out, no. I’m pretty sure it was in the early 2000s, but I wouldn’t be able to tell you exactly when without digging the thing up again. It was something I read in 2007 for work – and believe me, we were looking INTENSIVELY into the question of what sort of percentage of the population were GLBT. This study was one of the few bits of data we felt at all comfortable about relying on, so it must have been reasonably current.

I probably should have mentioned, there were also indications that 10% was about the right figure for people who said they had some kind of homosexual experience. But, as people around here would be well aware, sexual experiences you might have had along the way are quite different to how you identify your sexual orientation. So that’s one possible reason for the discrepancy.

Not that it really matters how many GLBT people there might be, in terms of how they should be treated. I suppose if the figure is higher, it just makes it more outrageous that so many have suffered for so long.

Hi Orfeo

Thanks for that. I appreciate you taking the time to clarify further. What do you do for a job?

Maybe it’s been tempting for GLBTIQ to believe the higher figure because it made them feel like less of a minority, you know, like having strength in numbers. Mind you, in my case I was just misinformed. It did give me some comfort thinking the numbers were higher though. You’re right of course, it doesn’t really matter what the stats are in the sense that no one should be discriminated against and everyone deserves to feel safe and happy.

Ann Maree

Hi Tony

I forgot to say before that it’s really good that Ps Rob is touched by the emails in response to his message. Knowing that gives me a greater sense of who he is, and with that comes some understanding and grace which in turn allows me to be more patient.

Thanks for keeping us informed.

Ann Maree

thats what we do….hehe.

make sure we have all the info to be able to make informed conclusions……..