Thanks Mother Hen. You raise some really good questions too.

It confirms for me how important it is to identify one’s own values as well as prospective partner’s and whether they are compatible before entering into relationship. I have a list of my most important values as well as a list of ‘deal breakers’ and have revisited these when recently dating. I’ve found it helps so much to do this and stay true to my values while finding out the others’ values and bad habits and whether we can be compatible.

Brunski, there’s lots to think about here. And like Mother Hen said, we just want the very best for you. 🙂

Blessings,

Ann Maree

Wow Brunski, Ann Marie and I threw some challenging questions at you and you take them head on. Maybe you don’t have all the answers yet but you are working through them. Well done to you I am confident you will work through this you are stronger than you think.

God bless

Hi Brunski

You mentioned going to see Tom’s lawyer. I would suggest that there’s a conflict of interest with that because Tom’s lawyer is already working in Tom’s best interests and not yours. So his advice to you is likely to be swayed by what Tom needs. You might want to see a lawyer that’s separate to Tom’s, and not from the same firm.

You said:

because if I am totally honest with myself, I am still kind of hoping that I wont be able to sponsor him. That says it all doesn’t it? I guess perhaps, I dont really love him, perhaps I am not ready for a relationship … damn it! I am not in a financial situation to support him for 2 years or whatever the criteria is although, he has the financial means of supporting himself! And tells me not to worry about the money, he will pay the almost $3000 in sponsorship fees and assures me that his parents can send more money if needed! But my understanding is that, I as the sponsor, needs to show that I can support him ! anyway, I am going on again … sorry I will work this out eventually!

No need to apologise. You’re working through a very complex area, moreso than many people have to think about. And there are so many layers to this as well. I guess to simplify things somewhat: if he can’t live with you and you can’t support him, then it’s out of your hands, isn’t it?

You said:

You’d think that “at my age” I would be over this! I would have accepted that I am gay, moved on … at my age, I shouldn’t be going through one day thinking, its okay to be gay and God loves me … and the next, maybe I am just destined to burn in hell no matter how much God loves me after all, 1 Cor 6:9 says homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God!

We all have gaps in our knowledge and developmental experiences. Some of us just didn’t have the chance to learn certain things when others did. Maybe they had the supports that we didn’t or maybe there was another valid reason why they picked something up earlier than we did. And yet we tend to compare ourselves to others most unfavourably, expecting ourselves to be doing what others are without ever really considering that we have lived very different lives. I remember saying to my supervisor that: “I should have learned this by now” regarding a personal issue. And she said “But why? Why should you have? What opportunities did you have to learn them earlier? And isn’t it enough that you’re learning them now?” She must have asked me about 10x: “Why are you being so hard on yourself?” And you know that was very nurturing to hear that and to know that development occurs at all different levels in various ways.. and I was doing the best I could. Another colleague gave me a useful metaphor to do with building blocks and development. She said that we tend to want to believe that development happens in neat stages like building blocks one on top of the other, with each stage neatly finished before the next one goes on. And in reality, most people tend to have unfinished learning needs from earlier stages and so our development is ongoing. Various life circumstances may highlight the unfinished areas and allow us to return to them and develop further.

Regarding the scripture you have quoted, you might want to check the translation of the word ‘homosexual’ which was only put in modern translations and not in earlier renditions. My bible refers to “catamites” which were boys kept by older men. They were basically sold as sexual slaves with the blessing of the boys’ parents in exchange for education etc. So it’s possible this passage refers to an exploitative relationship rather than a loving homosexual one. And anyway, what about the parents who fully gave their young boys over to these situations? Why aren’t they being held accountable and why pick on the young victims? Perhaps consider some different translations of that passage to get a few takes on it.

Blessings,

Ann Maree

If he finds a way to get around the 1 year living together thing and the financial support stuff and all the other seriously complicated aspects of sponsorship, then I am in big shit because if I am totally honest with myself, I am still kind of hoping that I wont be able to sponsor him. That says it all doesn’t it? I guess perhaps, I dont really love him, perhaps I am not ready for a relationship … damn it!

Hi Burnski,

Yes I do think it says it all. I’ve asked you what you wanted and you have said you don’t know. I personally think deep down you do (as stated above) but possibly you don’t want to say it in fear of losing Tom. You have mentioned that Tom has said what a kind person you are. You have said you have felt used by other people before. I am wondering if you have issues saying NO to people, especially people you care about. It seems to me with this issue with Tom that you are hoping that something will present itself that clearly makes it impossible for you to sponsor Tom so you don’t have to say, you don’t want to sponsor him.

The reason I say this I used to have big issues saying no to people. I was a big people pleaser, I was asked to do lots of stuff at church because people knew I never said no. I felt the only times people came and talked to me was when they wanted something. I felt used. There was a particular situation where I was doing a lot of physical work for someone; this was not someone in the church. A friend said to me that the lady was taking advantage of my kindness. You have used phrases that have really stood out to me, you said you are always rescuing people (so did I). You have felt used by people; you don’t want to hurt Tom. (Too worried about hurting him despite the fact it might be hurting you.)

I can relate, I believe it comes down to a lack of boundaries. The friend who said to me people were taking advantage of my kindness recommended I read a book called “Boundaries” by Dr Henry Cloud and Dr John Townsend. I wasn’t ready to read it then. It wasn’t until a bit later in life I finally read the book. I remember reading the first chapter and thinking wow that’s me and had to read the last chapter straight away to know there was hope.

Very early in the book they tell a story about some parents who go and see them and say can the Counsellors talk to their son as he has a drug problem, never has any money, can’t pay his bills and his life is a mess. The Counsellors ask the parents what do they do about it, they said well we give him money, we try and help him where ever we can, we try and turn his life around. The Counsellors then ask where is their son, why isn’t here there with them, they said oh he is out skiing. The Counsellors said, I don’t think your son has any problems. Parents say what do you mean we have just told you he has a drug problem, has financial problems his life is a mess. How can you say he doesn’t have any problems? The Counsellor says he doesn’t he is out skiing having a good time, you have the drug problem, you have the financial problem, your lives are the ones in a mess. (Paraphrased been a while since I read the story) Took them a while to cotton onto what the counsellor was saying. They were trying to rescue their son, they weren’t letting him face his own issues and solve them.

Tom has an issue, he can’t stay permanently in Australia, it’s his issue, one he knew about before he got into a relationship with you. And he is trying and has successfully made it your problem.

I could go on about talking about the lack of boundaries, but I won’t. Maybe I’m off base here but if you feel you do suffer from a lack of personal boundaries maybe think about reading the book “Boundaries”.

But what I have realised is that this whole partner sponsorship drama has once again raised those deep wounds, those doubts, fears and anxieties about my sexuality. About being gay or rather, not wanting to be gay. My “brokenness” has resurfaced,

I think this clearly says at this present time sponsoring Tom is not what is good for you. You have your own issues to deal with without trying to sort out someone else’s. Brunski it’s time to look after you, if you are not seeing a counsellor maybe it’s something you could consider for yourself. I’m sure you don’t want to keep living your life like this.

You’d think that “at my age” I would be over this! I would have accepted that I am gay, moved on … at my age, I shouldn’t be going through one day thinking, its okay to be gay and God loves me … and the next,…..

We all go through different things at different times and in the right time for us. As Ann Marie said “Various life circumstances may highlight the unfinished areas and allow us to return to them and develop further.”

Your current circumstances have highlighted unfinished areas, I believe now is the right time for you to return to them and hopefully deal with them in a way that brings about a positive outcome for you, where you are free to a live as a gay man, with no fear or anxiety, no guilt just peace and love.

God bless you Brusnki my thoughts and prayers are with you. 🙂

Hi Mother Hen and Ann Maree,

Mother Hen you said Quote: I personally think deep down you do (as stated above) but possibly you don’t want to say it in fear of losing Tom. You have mentioned that Tom has said what a kind person you are. You have said you have felt used by other people before. I am wondering if you have issues saying NO to people, especially people you care about. It seems to me with this issue with Tom that you are hoping that something will present itself that clearly makes it impossible for you to sponsor Tom so you don’t have to say, you don’t want to sponsor him.

Yes, you are right. Deep down I dont want to sponsor him (there I said it) but your right again! I do have trouble saying NO to people especially, people I care about. I don’t even know if I love him, I certainly love being with him, enjoy his company, the intimacy we have, I think about him often … but does that constitute love? (as you can see I have never truly been in love) otherwise, I would probably know if I love him or not.

Quote: I was a big people pleaser, I was asked to do lots of stuff at church because people knew I never said no. I felt the only times people came and talked to me was when they wanted something. I felt used. wow thats certainly sounds like me, I am a big people pleaser, my last job of 13 years I was used and abused until the point where I could stand it anymore and left. I started there as a volunteer & loved it. I worked as a Volunteer for 11 YEARS!!! It was only in the last two years of my 13 years at this job that they started paying me. But I didnt mind so much and if they didnt use me and take advantage of my generosity and kindness and yes, my “inability” to say no! then I would probably still be there today. In fact, there hasn’t been a week that’s past since leaving that I havent thought about going back (Im a gluttent for punishment) anyway, I’m getting off track. Two statements you made really stood out and the more I read it, the more it hurts. You said, Quote: too worried about hurting him despite the fact it might be hurting you That’s so, so true! and Quote: Tom has an issue, he can’t stay permanently in Australia, it’s his issue, one he knew about before he got into a relationship with you. And he is trying and has successfully made it your problem.

Your right again! Maybe I am just Co-dependent or something.

Quote: Your current circumstances have highlighted unfinished areas, I believe now is the right time for you to return to them and hopefully deal with them in a way that brings about a positive outcome for you, where you are free to a live as a gay man, with no fear or anxiety, no guilt just peace and love. right again! geeze your good Mother Hen

😉 I am not seeing a counsellor although, I was seriously thinking about it, there is a psychologist literary up the road from my place, then again, she probably wont be able to help me. The other thing I realised recently is that it seems my OCD symptoms are creeping up again … better not go there, I think I can be way to upfront and honest, with everyone here. It seems like I regurgitating my whole life to you all 🙁

Ann Maree

you said Quote: So my question for you is when will you know you’ve reached that point of not being able to sponsor Tom.. What will be the indicator that you’ve arrived at that point? I mean you’ve stated that he can’t live with you and you can’t financially support him, and as an outsider looking in, it seems those are reasons enough to not sponsor him. And then there’s the fact that you’re not out or comfortable with your sexuality. I mean, how far will you stretch yourself and at what cost to you? And what are you gaining from it?

Well, I think I’m almost there … I did speak to his lawyer two weeks ago. (Im still waiting to hear back from the gay immigration task force people) Im guessing by the time they get around to arranging an interview date, it will be too late! or I will have finally come to the conclusion that I cant/wont sponsor Tom and he will have accepted it. Anyway, as I was saying, I saw his lawyer two weeks ago, he told me that it is essential that we live together however, there may be ways around that … alternatively, I we can move to the ACT and get married!! :~

He gave me the impression that he was hinting that I could lie about our relationship to get around the whole living together thing (maybe that was just me getting the messages wrong) and as for the financial commitment, all I would need to do is find someone who would be willing to act as a financial back up person :~ He also suggested that I could ask to be housed in a larger place (I live in public housing) waited 8 years to get into this place, I would probably need to wait at least 2-3 or more years to get transferred into a new larger place I suspect, by that stage Tom’s visa will have expired. Alternatively, I could simply let the housing Dpt know that I have a partner and they may be willing to allow him to live here until we either find a larger place or decided that this tiny bed-sitter is okay for the two of us. Then of course there is Centrelink … its all too much! Tom is working, one job is cash in hand the other he claims is legal, so if he were to live with me, his wage would come into the whole senaro hence, my rent will increase and benefits decrease (I’m on Centrelink benefits as well) it just gets more complicated doesn’t it?

Now here comes the Bomb shell! I txt Tom two weeks ago after my interview with the lawyer and basically said, If I dont sponsor you, its not because I dont love you, because I do. Its just that its either not possible or just too hard! And guess what? I didnt hear back from him until this past Monday (and only after I contacted him) yeah, yeah, maybe I’m blind!

He told me that the reason he hasn’t been in touch with me for a while, was because his “Uncle is very sick and in hospital” and he (Tom) has been stressing out and worried about him … (okay, before you ask, and do you believe that?) Yes I do well, kind of :~ I think its not too hard to believe that he has a sick uncle in hospital … but as a friend told me, he could still have at the very least sent me a txt message. Anyway, time will tell if he has been avoiding me because he realises that I wont sponsor him or if he generally is worried about his uncle and hasn’t “had time to think” about me. He assures me that he still “loves me” … I just wish I was brave enough to simply say NO but on the few times that I have come close to saying NO (actually, just saying that “I dont think that I can sponsor you”) his reply was “if you say you love me and really mean it, you should prove it too me” -“we have been meeting up 2-3 times a week, going out, doing things together … you know I love you, Im so happy when Im with you. But we cant keep going on like this. If you really love me, you will help me to stay here” 🙁 And of course, I am left feeling as guilty as hell! He is desperate, he has “no one” in Australia, just me. I look at him and so desperately want to help him. Rescue him and be with him (even though, maybe, just maybe, he will disappear never to be seen again, the moment he gets residency) am I a sucker or what??