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just a couple of questions (is it really all a lie?)

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Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
August 23, 2011, 14:31

Hi avb


Thanks for this input, especially your stages that I couldn’t find previously. 🙂


I agree that having f2b as a place to discuss and be supported makes a big difference in peoples’ journeys toward acceptance. Reconciliation of sexuality and faith seems to occur at a substantially faster rate for those here than it did for me when I didn’t know about the site. It took me 2-4 years to be really at peace with my sexuality whereas I’ve also noticed that for others here, it takes mere months.


Blessings,


Ann Maree

Suzee
 
Joined in 2011
August 23, 2011, 18:55

Wow Anthony, I loved reading your comments. Really good stuff there. You make it all make sense. (I was hoping you’d be jumping on board with the discussion.)


Ann Maree…thanks for your encouragement. I realise I made a hasty reply when I was feeling a tad frustrated, and am sorry about that. 🙁


Brunski…you are on the right track so keep on searching, asking, reading and listening. Love to you. 🙂



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
August 23, 2011, 19:20

thanks Suzee …..been doing this for a while as you know…..hehe


Ann Maree……i will never forget the first time I saw this accelerated resolution with some guys who began coming to the Sydney Chapter meetings 6 years ago…..I just stood back in awe…….amazing I thought……I knew from that point on that we were on a winner with our mission and particularly the guidelines…….and just kept it going…..even till we only had three or four people at the meetings…..then we reached critical mass.


I know one of the keys was the space……no agenda….no judgement…..just a safe space to connect and share with people who understood the struggle.


You are in the right space Brunski

Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
August 23, 2011, 19:25

Hi Suzee


No probs. I love that you are here with us, supporting our community in the way you do. And I love your passion and love, especially for those of us who are struggling with really difficult and complex issues. It’s great too that you can reflect on your own and others’ responses and learn. It’s always my hope that I do the same things.


Keep up the good work! Your comments are encouraging to me. 🙂


Blessings,


Ann Maree

Brunski
 
Joined in 2005
August 24, 2011, 00:33

wow I have started a very long thread.

Yeah I see what is being said in reply to my questions, thanks guys 🙂 I guess I’m just in a bad place at the moment, still struggling to accept my sexuality … it really sucks!

“Are you willing to believe what people have told you already? Have you gone back and read everyone’s comments and answers?” yes I am willing to believe it but just because I am willing, it doesn’t make it any easier to actually believe it or too agree with what has been said to me. As for going back to read everyone’s comments well, I have read most, there are SO MANY lol but thanks again to everyone who has taken the time to reply. I will get around to reading them all.


Yeah your right David, its fine not to be part of the gay scene, I am definitely not, I guess I just wanted to be able to “enjoy” the short time that I was there at the shift (for those of you in Sydney) but I just found myself feeling like I really didnt want to be there. Maybe I am just being a drama queen lol


Thanks Anthony for your input, but geeze, you have led me to tears again :(( I guess your comments (as in your book) are so realistic and true to my situation that they trigger all kinds of emotions.


I think this has all resurfaced because I have become involved in a “relationship” if you can call it that, I have been seeing someone who I “love” not sure if its really love or just lust :~ he tells me that he loves me and I find myself craving his love and affection. The times we spend together are great, but when he leaves I often find myself asking what would Jesus say? and before I know it, Im down on my knees, in tears crying out to God asking him to remove my doubts and fears, to help me to overcome my “sinful homosexual nature” :~


I know that God loves me well, at least that what I tell myself, I am not sure about the whole Jonathan and David being gay or eunuchs but really, does it matter? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. I read the Bible and I see just how much God loves me. But I continue to struggle, I am “sure” there will come a time when I will finally accept that I am gay and cant change it, a time when I will embrace it and live a fulfilled and joyous life, but that day seems so far away at this stage.


I guess I have come closer to that day, as I said I am currently in a “relationship” so obviously, I have accepted my sexuality to a greater degree, but there are still issues. There is still that guilt, still that fear and still that doubt. Why the hell am I going around in circles?


Sorry guys, I have written way too much, you have all been wonderful, all been so supportive and I thank you for it. But I have to apologise because I feel that I am just going around in circles and bringing you guys along in the process. Thanks again for all the replies, all the advice and all the incites, I am just sorry that it seems that I am taking one step forward and two steps back.


Yesterday, I had a seizure (I have epilepsy) and ended up in hospital, while in there I found myself dwelling on the past and remembering those times two times when I tried to kill myself because I couldn’t accept that I was gay. Couldn’t get past the belief that homosexuality is a sin, that God hates me and that my sexuality means that I will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor 6:9) as I thought of that, I started feeling anxious & angry with myself for still struggling .. ended up having another seizure. The Doctors ask if I was under any stress … told one of them that I am gay and having trouble accepting it, that I feel a shamed that I am gay … he said that I shouldn’t but went on to suggest that I speak to a counsellor or see a psychologist. Maybe I should take him up on that offer.

Anyway, sorry I am rambling … this is way too long, sorry!

Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
August 24, 2011, 01:03

yep…….I reckon seeing a counsellor would be good. You have been traumatized through the years. These things are still having an impact in your life and keeping you stuck. I am not a psychologist……and we dont provide professional help here but we do have counsellors who we recommend because they understand people from our background. I have done some training with them.


some of these services are provided free or at a minimal cost……if you PM forestgrey (who is on the Sydney team) and he will be able to advise you how to connect.


BTW……I remember several years after I came out and people told me that god loved me anyway……..I SOOOOOO could not accept that as a gay man……and at times would go into a panic attack. Once again the trauma was triggered.


Some people have not been able to attend chapter meetings because it triggers the trauma. I used to sometimes meet with people before the meeting…..have coffee with them….and take them to the meeting….that made it easier.


…..and you are right….David….Jonathan and eunuchs are irrelevant at the moment.


I went to see a counsellor myself last year when past traumas were triggered. it helped me understand and put things in context.

Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
August 24, 2011, 13:41

Hi Brunski


Thanks for your lengthy reply. It shows your processing and difficulties which are totally valid and things I can recall grappling with. I’m sure others can relate to them as well. 🙂


I agree with avb’s comments and suggestions. I’ve certainly found counselling very helpful for myself and others in working through these sorts of issues. Sometimes a lot of things get tangled together and it’s good to work with a professional to identify the core issues and then perhaps focus on one thing at a time.


Keep talking with us. We are here to support you however we can. 🙂


Blessings,


Ann Maree

Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
August 24, 2011, 15:29

You mentioned also about how the loving/emotional/physical relationship with this guy is also having an impact on you. I thought I would post this below. It is an extract from a book I am writing for gay men in heterosexual marriages……its a repsonse to an email a guy called Joe (not his real name) sent me.


Even though you are not in this situation there will be some things that relate to your experience……I’d be interested to know if they do. The title is the key. Hope it helps.


Love Changes Everything


thanks for your email Anthony.


Regarding your ‘I guess the question arises – what happens if you and the guy you occasionally have sex with fall in love and want to share a life together…what happens with your wife then????’


That is the bit I would struggle with…and that scares the sh!t out of me.’ Whether you “fall in love” or not maybe depends on your age. The older you are, the less likely you would be so taken with another human being.


Joe.

________________________________________


Hi Joe


From my personal experience and from the many gay men I’ve worked with …..it is frequently falling in love that is the catalyst that jolts them out of denial about their sexual orientation. And age is not a determining factor. Some though have successfully shut down emotional part of their life. But putting the lid on something is no guarantee that one day all the planets, chemicals and triggers might align and the persons finds themselves hopelessly in love for the first time in their lives.


For many…up until the point of falling in love…….we are happy to live with term bi…..assuming that because we have sex with their wives and have sex with men on the side makes us bisexual. For about 90%……they have sex with one woman many times and have sex with many men once. This in itself should be rather telling.


When you really fall in love with another man everything changes. You only want to have sex with him, you want to spend time with him….you may even want to grow old with him. It is at this point we realise that our homosexual orientation is not about behaviour but is far more profound…..and is the very essence of who we are. It is at this time many of us will use the term gay to describe ourselves and the shame and guilt attached to the term begin to disappear. The identity we chose to reject we are now willing to embrace and accept.


If we decide to stay in the heterosexual marriage we need to be aware that our emotions are an area that need constant monitoring…..possibly shut down all together. Personally I think this is sad. But I always respect peoples personal choices…..its their life to live…not mine……but I think our choices need to be informed ones.


I let my guard down a few weeks before my 40th birthday……..and the end result was that for the first time in my life I didn’t experience sex with a man clouded with shame, regret and guilt…..I experienced something amazing, something I never knew was possible. That night was the turning point. Once I became conscious of what was awaken within me I didn’t want to shut it down. It was like at last a part of me had become alive. The part that I’d tried to deny, control, suppress even kill.


For a brief while I regretted that encounter because of the long term implications….but in the long run I’m grateful it happened.


I’m not saying these things to scare you…….but just to make people aware of the enormous difference between sexual behaviour/activity……and our sexual orientation. Orientation is about love, affection, intimacy, tenderness and partnering. So if we are same sex oriented……we will only ever experience those things in their fullness in a same sex relationship……not in one night stands…anonymous sex…..or casual encounters with other men who need a sex fix……and rarely with a straight partner.

Brunski
 
Joined in 2005
August 24, 2011, 22:42

Thanks Anthony and Anne Marie,


I think in some ways talking about this here, is helping perhaps, not as much as I want it too but nevertheless, I think its helpful just to get things off my chest.


Seeing a counsellor or psychologist may be helpful, it has been in the past to some degree, but I’m really not sure who to see, I cant afford to see a Psychologist as I’m no longer working, I probably could for a short time, but I suspect this will be on a long term basis and Psychologist aren’t cheap! I know there are free services through the Area health services, Acon and some other government organisations. But I am reluctant, I would really like to talk to my church pastor, but I’m pretty sure he is of the opinion that homosexuality is a sin thus, probably wouldn’t be much help.



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
August 25, 2011, 02:09

buddy buddy buddy…..you have been isolated too long…..the appropriate support networks have been established for some time. We will get this sorted.
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