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just a couple of questions (is it really all a lie?)

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Mother Hen
 
Joined in 2011
October 26, 2011, 20:30

Hi Brunksi, Ok you realise everything I have said and say that I’m right. Ok so what are you going to do about it?


You said “you have a psychologist literary up the road but then again, she probably wont be able to help me.” How do you know that unless you ask her. A suggestion is that you give her a ring, or ring around and ask do they have experience in dealing with the issues you want to cover. Think about it like any other service you would pay for, you wouldn’t ask a plumber to do a certain plumbing job if he wasn’t qualified. Or get an electrician to do the plumbing, you would ring them up and ask what qualifications they have, do they have experience in the area you need work doing etc. I believe the same applies with seeing a counsellor, worst case you can walk out the door or hang up the phone.


I totally agree with what Ann Marie has said above.


I just wish I was brave enough to simply say NO but on the few times that I have come close to saying NO (actually, just saying that “I dont think that I can sponsor you”) his reply was “if you say you love me and really mean it, you should prove it too me” -“we have been meeting up 2-3 times a week, going out, doing things together … you know I love you, Im so happy when Im with you. But we cant keep going on like this. If you really love me, you will help me to stay here” 🙁 And of course, I am left feeling as guilty as hell


Brunski this is emotional blackmail, I’ve said about you having lack of boundaries, well there are people who are boundaries breakers they don’t respect the ones you do have or when you try to say no. They use words, expressions and actions to make you feel guilty so you do what they want. That is manipulation. Trust me I know. As I’ve mentioned I had big boundaries issues I’ve walked the walk and now I can talk the talk. I can now say NO and I don’t feel guilty about it and I don’t need to feel like I have to have a reason to say no.


You need to stand up for yourself, you need to set your own boundaries, no one is going to do it for you. You need to start looking out for you, no one else can do that for you either.


Ann Marie and I have said some home truths and to your credit you have listen to them and thought about what we have said. We are here to support you as best we can but in the end only you can do something about it.


God Bless, I know you can do what is right for you.



Brunski
 
Joined in 2005
October 27, 2011, 19:08

Hi Ann Maree & Mother Hen,


Ann you said Quote: It’s good that you noticed his response when you said you might not be able to sponsor him. I don’t think you’re blind to this. In fact I think you are starting to look at the signs and see things as they are.

Maybe your right, maybe I am starting to see the signs & things as they are, but what if they aren’t as they appear?

What if I am wrong?


Mother Hen yes, your right AGAIN! I should see what the Psychologist’s qualifications are before or if I see her. But really, what will she tell me that I haven’t heard? “there is nothing to be a shamed of” or “there is nothing wrong with being gay”


Quote: Brunski this is emotional blackmail, I’ve said about you having lack of boundaries, well there are people who are boundaries breakers they don’t respect the ones you do have or when you try to say no. They use words, expressions and actions to make you feel guilty so you do what they want. That is manipulation. Trust me I know. As I’ve mentioned I had big boundaries issues I’ve walked the walk and now I can talk the talk. I can now say NO and I don’t feel guilty about it and I don’t need to feel like I have to have a reason to say no.

You need to stand up for yourself, you need to set your own boundaries, no one is going to do it for you. You need to start looking out for you, no one else can do that for you either.


Yes, only I can do it, only I can take a stand, but the problem is that I really care about Tom (even if he is just trying to get PR) and I just dont want to hurt him.


I can see where this will end, he will go back to China and I will never see or hear from him again. Or maybe, he will move on and find someone else. He will tell me that I dont really love him because if I did … he will make me feel guilty for not helping him. The question is will I move on and find someone else? Or will I keep feeling guilty and resort back to meaningless casual flings? Will I find that “special someone” ? Or will I keep meeting the “wrong guys”? Will I just keep repeating the same senaro, meet a guy, “fall for him” allow myself to get used and only realising it when its too late? Meet a guy and go out of my way to please him, be overly generous even when I cant really afford it and at the end of the day, be short changed and left to wipe up the tears :(( Or will I just fall back into my guilt riddled life?


Oh I contacted Tom, he said that his uncle is still very sick and he needs help, but that was it, mind you he was (is) at work so he cant really talk … I wish we could just remain “together” without all of this crap!



sarab
 
Joined in 2011
October 27, 2011, 20:17

Hi Brunski –

just thought i’d put my 2 cents worth in about your thoughts about whether or not to see the psychologist.

you said:


But really, what will she tell me that I haven’t heard? “there is nothing to be ashamed of” or “there is nothing wrong with being gay”


I spent a lot of time before I went to a counsellor telling myself what i thought a counsellor might say or do. I thought I should try to work things out for myself. However, i got to a point where I was sick of going over the same stuff in my head and I needed someone objective to talk it all through with.


I think of going to a counsellor or psychologist as being similar to going to an accountant or tax agent to get your tax done. (stick with me here). I get all my receipts and paperwork ready myself at tax time – but that’s as far as I go. I then need an expert to help me work out the rest. So maybe you have gone a certain way in your thinking and in working things out… maybe an expert (psychologist or counsellor – not an accountant!!) can help you to work out the rest.


A counsellor in my experience is not there to “tell you what to do” – and as for your expectations that he/she may tell you “there’s nothing to be ashamed of about being gay” – maybe they will maybe they won’t – but a good counsellor could certainly give you an avenue for sorting through your own thinking, your own feelings and hopefully empower you to make decisions yourself that you feel good about. That has been my experience.


I might add – not all counsellors are great. So if you give someone a go a few times and don’t like them…. don’t write off counselling completely – just look for someone new.


If you have a good GP that you like maybe he/she could recommend someone for you to talk to.


I have spent years Brunski not entering the world of intimate relationships or of even thinking of myself as a sxual being. It took months of tearful painful counselling to come to a new place – journey not yet over! I cannot recommend talking to someone more strongly – it has, quite simply for me been a life saver.


all the best.


Sarab 🙂



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
October 27, 2011, 22:36

Hi Brunski


You said:


Maybe your right, maybe I am starting to see the signs & things as they are, but what if they aren’t as they appear? What if I am wrong?


I wonder if your hesitation to commit to a decision is a defence for fear that everything will go wrong. And what would be the worst that could happen if you are wrong? The thing is that life does involve an element of risk and things sometimes go wrong despite our best laid plans. But I suspect things might go even more wrong if you keep avoiding making a decision.


You said:


Yes, only I can do it, only I can take a stand, but the problem is that I really care about Tom (even if he is just trying to get PR) and I just dont want to hurt him.


Well that’s fair enough that you don’t want to hurt him. But what about you? Is Tom worried about you being hurt? And are you? If you don’t consider your own needs and take care of those first of all, you won’t be able to effectively care for Tom or anyone else.


You said:


I can see where this will end, he will go back to China and I will never see or hear from him again. Or maybe, he will move on and find someone else. He will tell me that I dont really love him because if I did … he will make me feel guilty for not helping him. The question is will I move on and find someone else? Or will I keep feeling guilty and resort back to meaningless casual flings? Will I find that “special someone” ? Or will I keep meeting the “wrong guys”? Will I just keep repeating the same senaro, meet a guy, “fall for him” allow myself to get used and only realising it when its too late? Meet a guy and go out of my way to please him, be overly generous even when I cant really afford it and at the end of the day, be short changed and left to wipe up the tears ( Or will I just fall back into my guilt riddled life?


You’re asking if you will do this or that as if you have no control over your life when in fact you do. I can only encourage you to get into the driver’s seat of your life and actively direct the path you take. And know that you can totally choose whether you allow yourself to meet others, whether you feel guilty or not in response to Tom or whether you permit yourself to be continually used. It’s up to you to decide what you want by setting goals then take different actions in line with those goals.


I also reinforce what sarab has written about seeking counselling support. Actually, I thought you already had a counsellor.. Is that not the case?


Blessings,


Ann Maree



Mother Hen
 
Joined in 2011
October 28, 2011, 10:30

Well said Sarab can’t agree more.



You’re asking if you will do this or that as if you have no control over your life when in fact you do. I can only encourage you to get into the driver’s seat of your life and actively direct the path you take. And know that you can totally choose whether you allow yourself to meet others, whether you feel guilty or not in response to Tom or whether you permit yourself to be continually used. It’s up to you to decide what you want by setting goals then take different actions in line with those goals.


I also reinforce what sarab has written about seeking counselling support. Actually, I thought you already had a counsellor.. Is that not the case?


I totally agree with Ann Marie, you do have control over your life or should I say you CAN take control over your life. When you have a lack of boundaries sometimes we give that control over to other people only we don’t realize it or put up with it until we are fed up with people controlling our lives.


It seems it is not until we are so fed up with it that we decide to gain control back over our own lives. Are you ready to do that?


One of the things I had to accept is that if I wanted to be able to say No to people, and not be controlled by them is I had to also accept that they might not like it and accept that they might say things or do things that were upsetting at the time to try and get me back under their control. This is where good support comes in, seeing a counsellor comes in. For me personally I needed someone to reassure me that it was ok for me to say no and that I shouldn’t feel guilty.


People have said things to you that have made you feel guilty so much if you don’t do what they want, that they don’t even have to say it to you now, you say it to yourself. Between them and yourself you are putting so much guilt, so much negativity on yourself. The pendulum is swung all the way to one side, having positive support from friends, F2B and a counsellor helps bring that pendulum back towards the middle and more balanced way of life and more balanced and settled within yourself.


There are VDP’s (very draining people) and VIP’s (very inspiring people) in life; you know who they are because of how you feel after you have spent some time with them. We need to have more VIP’s and less VDP’s in our life. VDP’s suck the life out of you, it’s all about them, VIP’s inspire you, make you feel good, make you feel you can achieve things, change your life around. A good counsellor should be a VIP.


You have expressed the fears you have if you say no to Tom, that you can’t sponsor him, you have also mentioned the hassles involved in sponsoring Tom. You are torn; it’s stressing you out to the max. Look at what it is doing to you.


I really do understand Brunski the fear that if you don’t do what other’s want, what Tom wants that you will be on your own, you won’t have any friends etc. I know how hard it can be to stop being controlled, to stand up and say no more. It’s hard it’s very hard, it’s so hard you can’t do it on your own. I also know you won’t or can’t do it until you get to the end of your tether, until YOU decide to do something about, no more excuses, or justification as to why you can’t say no. I understand you don’t want to hurt Tom, and you are to be commended on that. As my counsellor said to me look at what it is doing to you by doing what other people want all the time. So concerned over other people’s feelings and then dismissing my own feelings and hurting myself.


I remember when I was asked what do I want, I didn’t know either, I was so busy doing what other people wanted I hadn’t given a thought, I hadn’t allowed my own desires to come to the surface. I was too busy filling other’s people’s heart desires, other people’s destiny, other people’s wants and goals; I didn’t even know I had any.


No more excuses Brunski, take the steps towards gaining control back over your life, start allowing your goals and dreams to come to the surface and being fulfilled. Sure you are going to be scared, nervous as hell but you know what we are here walking with you and supporting you as much as we can.


God Bless



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
October 28, 2011, 23:39

Hi Mother Hen


Very well said. Thanks for sharing the wisdom born out of your own experiences. 🙂


Blessings,


Ann Maree



Brunski
 
Joined in 2005
October 29, 2011, 11:34

Hi Sarab. thanks for your “2 cents worth” I think I will end up seeing a counsellor, just not sure when and whether the one up the road is any good, but I wont know until I “try her out” so to speak. and yes, I am probably jumping the gun, as you say, she may not tell me that there is nothing to be ashamed of and their is nothing wrong with being gay …


I’ve been thinking a lot about it of late, and in doing so, I remember the “life saver” a counsellor at the Sydney West area health service was when I was raped several years ago, it took me a long time to handle it, and she was a great help. It was SO hard at first, but I have managed to move on form that and I suspect in time I will be able to move on from not only Tom & my current situation but my overall situation in regards to accepting and being comfortable with my sexuality. I just have to be patient I guess.


Coming back to this place, has so far been good & Im sure it will continue so …



Brunski
 
Joined in 2005
October 29, 2011, 12:04

Hi Ann Maree,

thanks for your words of wisdom once again 😉


you said Quote: But I suspect things might go even more wrong if you keep avoiding making a decision.

Your probably right there, I think I have already made an unconscious decision, I am just too scared to come out with it or at least to come out with it and stick by it!


Tom finally came over last night, told me about his uncles condition (he had a heart attack) and it turns out that he is in Sydney after all, I wasnt sure if he was in Australia or back in China. He also asked me if I could loan him some money, to help his uncle as since he offered to pay half of the CPAP machine that I brought (I think I mentioned about the whole sleep apnoea and CPAP and how Tom gave me a substantial amount of money to cover the costs) anyway, he ask for some money as, since he gave me that money, he is now runing low on cash … so in short, he needs some money to help his uncle and he assures me that he will pay me back once his uncle is able to give him the money back or over the coming weeks, he could pay me in “instalments” over a period of time. Anyway, I did end up giving him some money (perhaps he was taking me for a ride) maybe I made a massive mistake .. but what’s done is done and although I am still a little worried that I may never see that money again, for the most part I trust that he will repay me. I told him that I hope he will pay me back and he immediate response was, dont worry, I promise I will, then he was upset that I would even think such a thing and that I don’t trust him (again, maybe emotional blackmail) or maybe genuine, I guess I would have been upset if someone leant me some money then said, I hope you will pay me back!


You said Quote: Well that’s fair enough that you don’t want to hurt him. But what about you? Is Tom worried about you being hurt? And are you? If you don’t consider your own needs and take care of those first of all, you won’t be able to effectively care for Tom or anyone else


I dont think Tom understands the responsibility of sponsorship, I am worried that I will be hurt (at the same time I am expecting that I will be hurt) I think its inevitable because its highly unlikely that I will sponsor him in fact, I am 99% sure that I wont which means that he will go back to China and of course I will be hurt because I will miss him greatly and I know myself well enough to say that part of me will think, “maybe I should have made a greater effort to sponsor him” or “maybe I just didn’t try hard enough, maybe I never really loves him in the first place” … as I think I mentioned earlier, so yes I am expecting to get hurt.


You said Quote: You’re asking if you will do this or that as if you have no control over your life when in fact you do. I can only encourage you to get into the driver’s seat of your life and actively direct the path you take. And know that you can totally choose whether you allow yourself to meet others, whether you feel guilty or not in response to Tom or whether you permit yourself to be continually used. It’s up to you to decide what you want by setting goals then take different actions in line with those goals.



Yes I do have control over my life Im just finding it hard to hold on to that control, and yes, I can choose whether to feel guilty or not but, though you can “choose” its sometimes just too bloody hard. And other times when you are so use to feeling guilty and beating yourself up, thats all you know and you “cant” get out of that mode of thinking :((

As for allowing myself to be continually use, I am still not certain that Tom is using me (well okay, maybe to some degree) we all use one another to some extent or another. As another friend said to me, even if Tom is using you, your using him to meet your sexual needs and desires. Which may very well be the case.


Anyway, I know I will come to the point where I can honestly say this is what I WANT to do and this is WHAT I WILL DO & STICK TO IT! I know I will reach that stage when I will feel comfortable with whatever decision I make (even though there will be times of doubt and guilt, hopefully only brief times) but in the end (whenever that is) I will get there.



Mother Hen
 
Joined in 2011
October 29, 2011, 13:04

Wow Brunski,


You have certainly be through some tough times in your life. You know what I think you are stronger than you think, the fact you are still here proves that. I hope being on F2B is giving you some support.


God Bless



Brunski
 
Joined in 2005
October 30, 2011, 12:21

Thanks,


Between the epilepsy, the OCD, depression, psychotic episodes (as a result of some of the Anti-epileptic drugs) the suicide attempts, the exorcisms, being taken advantaged of, the sexual abuse at an early age, the rape in my early 30’s, the ex-gay stiff and the whole never-ending “gay thing” I guess, you could say I’ve been through a lot.


Yes being here on F2B has been and continues to be a source of encouragement and support, cant thank you all enough.


God bless,


Brunski


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