In my journey I really struggled with the whole pro-gay and anti-gay theology. I spent such a long time reading books, studying the bible, looking at science, psychology and all sorts of pro-gay theology and anti-gay theology. At the end of the day I think I had more questions than answers. But you know what….that’s ok!

God can still work through us even in the midst of such confusion and uncertainty. The bible says that even a little faith is enough to see the mountains lift and move! I trusted in God and over time the Holy Spirit started to show me truth and now I look at every passage in the bible through the heart of Jesus Christ. I immersed myself in the gospels, attempting to understand the motivation behind the red letter words (Jesus’ words). I discovered the love that God has for me and resolved myself to one simple command ‘Love God & Love others’. I am still not 100% certain whether or not the bible is pro-gay or anti-gay but I do know that we have been called to love and I will aim to do that! We can get lost in all the doctrine and dogma, all the rules and regulations and forget the calling upon our lives to simply love others as Christ loved us.

Think about why you may be gay?? For me…it was because God was calling me to bring the good news to the LGBTI community. I am called to love them and let them know that God loves them too. If I were straight and still living in a conservative suburb with no real care for LGBT people then I would never have had the amazing opportunities that I do now. I am gay for a reason and so are you!

wow so many responses, :bigsmile:

thanks everyone who has taken the time to response and counter respond … here is just a few things to throw in the mix.

1. some have mentioned David and Jonathan, I think I started the ball rolling with that one 😉 I for one don’t believe that neither Jonathan, nor David, nor Naomi or Ruth were gay, but that’s just my own opinion. The bible does not explicitly depict the nature of the relationship between David and Jonathan. yes, 1 Samuel 18:1-5 talks of how Jonathan loved David, and later in 2 Samuel 1:26 it say’s that “Jonathan’s love for David surpassed the love of women” but this doesn’t really imply there was a homosexual relationship between the two men. Why does a man loving another man more then a woman seemed to indicate that he is gay, in some people’s minds? Is it not possible for a man to love another man more then a woman, without he being gay or being involved sexually? is a deeply caring, affectionate and loving yet, non sexual relationship between two men or two woman impossible in the eyes of gay people today? Could it not be that this was the relationship between David and Jonathan? besides, weren’t David and Jonathan married to women, I think David having multiple wives. I read something recently that said something along the lines of, “in order for both David and Jonathan to engage in a sexual love affair implies they both sinned in adultery, a strict violation of the 7th commandment. The question is then begged, “how could David, a man described by the Lord as having a heart after God, involve himself in something that is strictly forbidden in God’s law?” good question I think, that’s one I’m going to have to remember the next time someone tells me that David and Jonathan were gay.

Sure the Bible mentions Jonathan and David’s loving intimacy, exchanging clothing, embracing, weeping together, hugging and kissing each other. (not sure about the naked bathing part) but again, how does this prove that either or both were gay? Could it just be that “we” are putting our own modern day and perhaps, bias views on this and interpreting it. as we want it, to satisfy our desire to say that the Bible sanctions same sex marriage or that there is proof of gay relationships in the Bible?

Quote : Anne Marie you said “Nude wrestling and bathing each other?  hehe Really? And not sexual??

Wow! So it sounds like you’re saying that even if David and Jonathan were naked while hugging, kissing and crying together, this might not have been sexual”

why is that so unimaginable to comprehend? Can a man or a woman not be bathing together naked without there being anything sexual about it? Is it too hard for gay people to believe that it is very possible for two men (or two women) hugging each other, embracing and weeping together, not be sexual? Perhaps in our sex crazed, homoerotic society it is uncomprehensable to accept such a thing as possible, but I for one do believe it is possible.

2. Not sure about “liberation theology” isn’t that a catholic thing? (I tend to stay well away from Catholic theology) I may have to do a google search on Liberation theology, never really heard of that.

3. Quote: Raul you said, “It is not a sin. It is a natural state that one is born with, no different from heterosexuality. The Bible has never condemned homosexuality or homosexuals in any way shape or form. God created you this way and loves you just as you are”. I agree to some degree, homosexuality per say is not a sin, but where the water becomes cloudy is in the act of homosexuality eg: two guys fucking … now that the Bible condemns (if you believe traditional interpretations)

And secondly, I am not convinced that God created me this way, I dont think anyone is born gay. I accept that some people may have a “predisposition” to becoming gay, they may have certain biological factors within their make up that later in life may lead to becoming homosexual. But I dont believe that anyone is born gay (but maybe I am wrong) I don’t believe I was born gay, but I do believe that God has allowed me to develop into a gay man. As a boy, I chose to engage in some sexual activities with other boys. Initially, it was just “part of growing up” it was sexually arousing, I enjoyed it, continued and of course the more you do something, the more it becomes in grained within your consciousness and we soon come to view it as normal. Of course, in my case, there was a little more too it, but that’s a different story for different day.

Quote: “The Word is good. It is human weakness that is the problem” -totally agree with that! but still it doesn’t make it easier.

Ben, thanks so much for your input, I think you and other have made the statement or similar statements like “Let the Holy Spirit guide you” that’s part of my confusion. I am a Christian and believe that the Holy Spirit guides, but there are other’s who say they are a believer and guided by the Holy Spirit and yet say, God condemns homosexuality and homosexuality is sin. he or she uses the Bible to back their claims and say that the Holy Spirit is the one guiding them. Then someone else comes along, claims the opposite and uses the Bible to back their claim and again, tell you that they are guided by the Holy Spirit, who is right and who is wrong?

Querido Brunski,

A few things….

A. The act itself is not the problem, it is the content of the act. Sexual acts devoid of love and commitment are the problem. This is true of homosexual and heterosexual relations. A sexual act between a married, committed, loving couple (irregardless of orientation) is in fact one of the most beautiful gifts given to us by our Creator and in turn, as a sign of love, it is worthy praise for him.

B. Yes, we are born with “predispositions” (as you say) to be gay or straight. That’s all I meant.

C. Who is right and who is wrong? Tell me of their fruit. Do they embrace their brothers and sisters? Do they act out of compassion or self-righteousness and a need to be accepted by their social circle? Do they study the Word and despite seeing that context and translations do not support a homophobic views, choose instead to listen to the cruelty of man? Do they act for themselves and their ego or do they act for others? It is here that one sees the difference between one guided by the Spirit and those who are guided by their own ambitions and fears.

Yours in Christ,

Raul

Something else came to me this morning…

Rather than dwell on those mis-interpreted scriptures people have used against homosexuality, why not set them aside and look at the hundreds of affirming scriptures in the Bible.

Read through Galatians, preferably in a modern translation such as The Message (my favourite).

Read those wonderful affirming scriptures which tell us we are set free to live a free life; that we are a child of God.

Paul sets no requirements, no limits, no boundaries – everyone is included.

Let God speak to your heart through these passages of the Bible. Truth will come.

Most of us have found that although the issue of what the scriptures actually say about homosexuality is really important, (and it certainly was for me), the point of acceptance of ourselves as being gay and being really happy and contented about it deep down is equally important.

The turning on of the light for me was Matt 19:12. Most accept after a careful study of eunuchs in Esther and Isaiah + others, that a eunuch is one who is not attracted to the opposite sex. This verse says “For some are eunuchs because they were born that way…The one who can accept it should accept it.”

You may want to study for yourself, but as I prayed about it a lot over years, one day it just seemed the Lord put His hand on me and said “Hey…it’s OK”. I accepted myself as being gay. The relief was absolutely enormous. After some very difficult experiences in the church, this is what the Lord HIMSELF said to me directly about it. And that was all that mattered in the end.

There is also a big emotional acceptance as well, and I have found I was definitely not alone in this. It came to me when I was watching the film, “Prayers for Bobby” which was based on the true story of Bobby Griffiths who was gay and took his own life. That was me in that film right there without a doubt. I came very close to taking my own life myself at one point. I just cried and cried as I watched it.

For others it has been the film “For the Bible tells me so.” Others it was “Broke Back Mountain”. We have found tremendous emotional healing as we watched those films. It brought release that had been bottled up for years in some cases. It has allowed us to move forward to a point of acceptance of ourselves and that needs to happen. It is not just the exegetical study of the scriptures though that is very important.

All the very best. I hope this helps.